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Leading Saints Podcast

Leading Saints
Leading Saints Podcast
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371 episodes

  • Leading Saints Podcast

    Part 1: What Leaders Can Learn From the People Who Are Leaving the Church | An Interview with Jeff Strong

    22/04/2026 | 1h 12 mins.
    Jeff Strong worked nearly 30 years in the consumer products industry as a senior executive at Procter & Gamble and global president and chief customer officer at Johnson & Johnson. He then taught in the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University and worked as an advisor to the Church before serving as a mission leader in the Arkansas Bentonville Mission.

    Jeff has since spent several years doing research on why people are leaving the Church. He recently published the book Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn from Them. Jeff lives in Midway, Utah, and stays busy with a little lavender farm, some business consulting, and enjoying family.



    Links

    Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn from Them

    What to Say When Loved Ones Leave the Church | An Interview with Jeff Strong and Joseph Grenny

    The Data Behind Church Culture | An Interview with Jeff Strong

    TornByJeffStrong.com

    Instagram: @tornbyjeffstrong

    Facebook

    Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

    Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

    Highlights

    00:02:42 – Competing Narratives in Church Growth and Disaffiliation

    00:04:22 – Personal Connection to Disaffiliation

    00:06:36 – The Journey to Understanding Disaffiliation

    00:09:05 – The Role of Data and Personal Experience

    00:10:54 – The Complexity of Disaffiliation

    00:12:11 – The Challenge of Measuring Disaffiliation

    00:15:09 – Research Methodology and Findings

    00:17:29 – Understanding the Audience for “Torn”

    00:19:30 – The Importance of Accurate Understanding

    00:20:36 – Celebrating Strengths While Facing Challenges

    00:22:03 – The Impact of Local vs. Global Growth

    00:25:41 – The Role of Missionary Work [CORRECTION: Jeff’s rough estimate of 275,000 baptisms per year is the GLOBAL number. The U.S. number is a portion of that.]

    00:27:06 – The Need for a Balanced Perspective

    00:29:26 – The Misconception of Resurgence Among Young People

    00:31:03 – The Data on Disaffiliation

    00:35:02 – The Four Waves of Disaffiliation

    00:40:53 – Wave One: Lifestyle and Depletion

    00:43:17 – Personal Anecdote on Depletion and Church Experience

    00:44:19 – Wave Two: Doubt and Disbelief

    00:46:05 – Wave Three: Cultural and Social Factors

    00:48:12 – Wave Four: Institutional Issues

    00:50:00 – The Importance of Understanding and Addressing Disaffiliation

    Key Insights

    Competing Narratives: The church is experiencing growth in certain areas, such as baptisms and missionary work, but disaffiliation remains a significant concern, with many individuals quietly stepping away from their faith.

    Personal Connection: Jeff shares his personal journey of grappling with his son’s disaffiliation, highlighting the emotional impact and the need for a deeper understanding of why individuals leave the church.

    Research Findings: Jeff’s research indicates that approximately 40% of active members have disaffiliated since 2000, with various reasons categorized into “waves,” including lifestyle challenges and deeper faith crises.

    Cultural Dynamics: The discussion emphasizes the importance of recognizing the cultural pressures within the church that may lead to feelings of depletion rather than spiritual fulfillment for some members.

    Engagement vs. Disaffiliation: While many active members report strong engagement and purpose, a significant portion of young adults are less affiliated with organized religion, indicating a complex relationship with faith.

    Leadership Applications

    Fostering Understanding: Leaders can benefit from understanding the reasons behind disaffiliation to create a more inclusive and supportive environment for those struggling with their faith.

    Encouraging Open Dialogue: By promoting open conversations about faith challenges, leaders can help bridge the gap between those who feel fulfilled in their faith and those who are struggling.

    Addressing Cultural Pressures: Leaders should be aware of the cultural dynamics that may lead to feelings of depletion among members and work to create a more nurturing and understanding community that supports individual spiritual journeys.

    The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

    Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

    Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.
  • Leading Saints Podcast

    Women Zion Builders | An Interview with Robin Ritch

    18/04/2026 | 55 mins.
    Robin Ritch has spent her career building things that matter. She has led teams at Microsoft, Intel, and Cisco, and most recently served as President and Publisher of Deseret News Publishing Company, where she helped transform a 172-year-old institution into a nationally recognized digital voice.

    Throughout her career, Robin has had a knack for seeing around corners. She has launched new products, modernized organizations, and brought together unlikely communities around conversations that matter.

    She gives back through board service at The Policy Project, WikiCharities, Social Venture Partners, and Mission Edge, organizations working to make communities stronger.

    For as long as she can remember, Robin has been fascinated by women and their relationship with God. That lifelong curiosity is what led her to write “Using Friction to Grow”, her first book.

    Robin examines case studies of Latter-day Saint women who navigated significant social and ecclesiastical changes during the 1970s. She discusses how these women managed friction from society, family, and the Church to develop deeper discipleship and personal sanctification.



    Links

    Using Friction to Grow: Stories of Strength and Resilience, LDS Women 1968-1976

    Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

    Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

    Highlights

    Key Insights

    The Purpose of Friction: Friction is a divine design intended to slow individuals down, allowing them to refine their relationship with God and smooth away “rough edges” of character.

    Personal vs. Organizational Revelation: Individuals may receive personal revelation for their own lives that precedes broader organizational shifts within the Church.

    Historical Resilience: Women in the 1970s drew strength from the stories of their suffragette grandmothers, recognizing that navigating tension within a faith community is not a new phenomenon.

    Individual Agency and Revelation: The women Robin interviewed did not view Church counsel as a reason to stop their personal progression; instead, they used it as a prompt to seek their own confirmed answers through prayer and fasting.

    Grace for Diverse Paths: These women practiced deep empathy, recognizing that God provides unique answers for different individuals and that one person’s path does not dictate the “correct” path for everyone else.

    Leadership Applications

    Validating the Struggle: Leaders can help members understand that feeling “friction” with a policy or teaching is not a sign of unworthiness but an opportunity for a sanctifying “wrestle” with God.

    Managing Implementation: Recognizing the gap between revelation and organizational implementation helps leaders be more patient with institutional changes and more supportive of members who see needs before the organization adapts.

    00:02:00 – Robin’s Book: Using Friction to Grow

    00:03:00 – The Importance of Women’s Stories

    00:04:00 – The 1970s: A Time of Friction for Women

    00:06:00 – The Equal Rights Amendment and Church Response

    00:07:00 – Personal Stories of Friction and Faith

    00:09:00 – Navigating Friction in Faith Communities

    00:10:00 – The Role of Personal Revelation

    00:12:00 – The Nature of Friction in Growth

    00:13:00 – Engaging with Friction for Personal Growth

    00:15:00 – The Evolution of Church Practices

    00:17:00 – The Importance of Change and Growth

    00:18:00 – Balancing Hope and Disappointment in Faith

    00:20:00 – The Role of Friction in Personal Development

    00:21:00 – Story of a Woman’s Experience with Church Leadership

    00:24:00 – Finding Strength in Christ Amidst Friction

    00:25:00 – The Impact of Personal Stories

    00:27:00 – The Need for Women’s Voices in the Church

    00:29:00 – Encouragement for Women in Parenting

    00:30:00 – Broadening Engagement Beyond Parenting

    00:32:00 – The Importance of Sharing Light

    00:33:00 – The Role of Leaders in Navigating Friction

    00:37:00 – Understanding Different Perspectives

    00:40:00 – The Influence of Social Media on Women’s Stories

    00:41:00 – The Responsibility of the Hearer in Storytelling

    The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

    Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

    Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.
  • Leading Saints Podcast

    Analyzing 52 Church Cultures | An Interview with David Boice

    11/04/2026 | 1h 1 mins.
    David Boice is a faith-based storyteller and traveler originally from Wausau, Wisconsin, and the creator of the YouTube series 52 Churches in 52 Weeks. What began as a personal search for a spiritual home became a nationwide journey through nearly 200 congregations, documenting not just what churches teach, but how they receive those walking in for the first time. His work offers a unique window into the lived experience of faith, community, and belonging across modern Christianity.

    Through these road stories, David has developed a thoughtful perspective on the subtle dynamics that shape religious communities—hospitality, fellowship, teaching, and the process by which a stranger becomes an insider. His content blends spiritual curiosity with candid reflection, inviting viewers to engage faith in a more personal and experiential way.

    In April 2024, David was baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He recently relocated to Utah and is now developing 52 Temples in 52 Weeks, a companion project exploring temple worship, symbolism, and covenant faith. Alongside his content, he has used his platform to support causes such as St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital.

    When he’s not traveling or filming, David can usually be found writing, editing, or wrestling with deeper questions—like whether dad jokes qualify as a spiritual gift.



    Links

    YouTube @52churchesin52weeks

    YouTube @52temples

    Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

    Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

    Highlights

    David discusses his unique journey of visiting various denominations before joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The conversation focuses on the impact of church culture, the power of a welcoming environment, and the lessons Latter-day Saint leaders can learn from the strengths and weaknesses of other faith traditions.

    00:03:38 – David’s Background and Spiritual Journey

    00:05:51 – Fallout with the Lutheran Church

    00:07:45 – The Idea of Visiting 52 Churches

    00:10:05 – Documenting the Church Visits

    00:12:17 – The Need for Community and Church

    00:13:41 – First Visit to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

    00:18:25 – Insights on Church Culture and Leadership

    00:21:02 – The Importance of Welcoming Visitors

    00:22:04 – Generational Disconnect in Churches

    00:25:24 – The Role of Missionaries in Church Culture

    00:26:16 – Cleaning Assignments and Ownership

    00:30:16 – Communion Practices Across Different Churches

    00:32:23 – The Significance of Communion in Worship

    00:36:19 – Differences in Communion Timing and Structure

    00:40:03 – The Role of Communion in Community and Faith

    00:45:09 – Unique Takeaways from Church Visits and Experiences

    Key Insights

    Welcoming Environment: David emphasizes the importance of a communal atmosphere in churches. He found that Latter-day Saint congregations were notably more welcoming, with members actively engaging with visitors, which contrasted sharply with his experiences in other churches.

    Communion Practices: The sacrament in Latter-day Saint services is conducted early in the meeting, which David found refreshing compared to other traditions where communion is often the main event. This practice fosters a sense of community and shared purpose.

    Involvement and Ownership: David appreciated the opportunities for active participation in the Latter-day Saint community, such as cleaning assignments, which gave him a sense of ownership and responsibility within the ward.

    Generational Engagement: He noted the generational dynamics in church attendance, observing that many mainline Protestant churches struggle to engage younger generations, while Latter-day Saint congregations maintain a strong sense of family and community.

    Cultural Differences: David highlighted the differences in how various churches approach worship, including the use of sensory elements in Catholic services versus the more straightforward approach in many Protestant services.

    Leadership Applications

    Foster a Welcoming Culture: Latter-day Saint leaders can prioritize creating a welcoming environment by encouraging members to actively greet and engage with newcomers, ensuring that visitors feel valued and included.

    Encourage Participation: Leaders should provide opportunities for members to take on responsibilities within the ward, fostering a sense of ownership and community involvement that can enhance engagement and commitment.

    Focus on Community Building: By emphasizing the importance of family and community in church activities, leaders can help bridge generational gaps and create a more inclusive atmosphere that resonates with all members.

    The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

    Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

    Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.
  • Leading Saints Podcast

    Leading Saints Live: Engaging Conversations on Leadership, Community, and Spiritual Growth

    08/04/2026 | 59 mins.
    Jump into Zion Lab: https://app.leadingsaints.org

    In this episode we back up to early March for the first “Leading Saints Live” livestream where Kurt Francom explains more about Zion Lab and shares highlights from discussions.

    We discuss:

    Zion Lab as a Resource

    Generational Disconnect: The gap between older and younger generations, the pressure to conform to expectations, and the facade of compliance rather than genuine engagement

    Bishopric Responsibilities: Shifting responsibilities of bishops and balancing their focus on youth while ensuring all members receive adequate support and ministering

    Communication Strategies: Ask open-ended questions and foster a non-judgmental environment to promote dialogue and understanding

    Boundary Changes and Transparency: Is there a need for transparency regarding boundary changes? Can communication reduce anxiety and foster acceptance?
    The Power of Naming: Inclusion and Belonging for LGBTQ+ Families in Church Discussions

    How to become a Zion Builder (and how to get a sponsored membership if cost is a barrier)

    â–º Links & Resources:

    📱 Download the Leading Saints app: Search “Leading Saints” in the Apple App Store or Google Play

    💬 Join Zion Lab and become a Zion Builder at https://app.leadingsaints.org

    📩 DM Kurt directly inside Zion Lab

    “Leading Saints Live” streams every first Friday of the month in the Zion Lab app.

    The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

    Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

    Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.
  • Leading Saints Podcast

    New Church Schedule: How to Turn 25 Minutes into 60+ Minutes

    03/04/2026 | 45 mins.
    Zion Lab: https://app.leadingsaints.org/

    Leading Saints Live | March Recap + The Future of Leading Saints

    Kurt Francom shares highlights from the past month in Zion Lab — Leading Saints’ growing online community app — and digs into the biggest topic on everyone’s mind: the upcoming changes to the Sunday meeting schedule taking effect September 6.

    In this episode:

    What is Zion Lab and why Kurt thinks it’s the future of Leading Saints

    The AI Clerk feature and how it helps church leaders find answers fast

    Reactions and discussion around the new split Sunday meeting schedule

    Kurt’s Elders Quorum small-group format and why it works so well for the shorter class time

    A bishop’s “Bishop’s Youth Discussion” model that’s transforming youth engagement

    How to become a Zion Builder (and how to get a sponsored membership if cost is a barrier)

    Links & Resources:

    📱 Download the Leading Saints app: Search “Leading Saints” in the Apple App Store or Google Play 💬

    Join Zion Lab and become a Zion Builder at leadingsaints.org 📩 DM Kurt directly inside Zion Lab

    Leading Saints Live streams every first Friday of the month.

    The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

    Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

    Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

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