The Dad Edge Podcast

This week I talked with Sam Kelly, a mom of three, a master's-level art therapy counselor, and the creator of Little Cycle Breakers, about the mental load, the invisible, exhausting job of noticing everything that needs to be done in a house before anyone else even sees it. Sam spent over a year trying to get her husband to share that load the old way, more chore charts, more reminders, more managing, before she realized she was just teaching her own kids to wait for instructions too. That realization became "notice and do," the framework at the center of her brand new book, and the idea we spend most of this conversation digging into.
This one gets real, and it's not just for moms. Sam and I get into what dads are actually missing when it comes to invisible labor, why chore charts and reward systems tend to fail, how to teach a five-year-old to notice a full trash can without becoming "the manager" forever, and a section where I push her on how men and women can both actually feel heard instead of attacked when these conversations get hard. If you've ever felt like you're just waiting for the next assignment in your own house, or you're the one handing them out, this episode is for you.
 
Timeline Summary
[2:15] Sam and Larry discuss the hate she gets online whenever a post about partners goes viral, and how this is her first podcast interview with a man
[4:12] Larry reads Sam's full bio: her art therapy background, Little Cycle Breakers, and her new book, Notice and Do
[7:53] Sam explains which topics tend to trigger men the most, especially content about partners rather than kids
[9:20] Sam introduces the idea of a "mental privilege" gap between how men and women are culturally conditioned
[13:29] Larry shares a story about trying to recreate his wife's artwork, and admits he never learned "notice and do" growing up
[15:24] Sam points out couples spend roughly 1,500 hours preparing for a wedding and about three hours preparing for the marriage
[19:26] Larry asks how women can raise the mental load without it turning into an attack, and Sam reframes rage as desperation to be seen
[23:18] Larry raises the flip side, men who don't feel physically wanted, and Sam responds that women don't owe their partner sex, but both partners deserve to feel seen
[27:19] Sam cites the statistic that women still carry roughly 70 percent of a household's cognitive labor
[30:13] Larry shares his own "what can I help you with" habit and how he shifted to noticing and offering specific choices instead
[42:19] Sam walks through the "noticing walk," her core method for teaching kids what to notice room by room
[46:18] Larry has an on-air realization that he's never taken his own sons through a notice exercise in 20 years of fatherhood
[48:30] Sam shares her son's "carry the mental load" line in a public restroom, and a sixth grader's school "mental load" comment
[50:57] Sam explains the notice and do structure was built with her own neurodivergent, ADHD family in mind
[55:09] Sam and Larry compare how their own households divide bigger recurring responsibilities instead of splitting every task
[1:00:06] Sam shares where to find her on Instagram and how to get Notice and Do
 
Five Key Takeaways
The mental load is a whole-family issue, not just a partner issue, so kids need to learn it too, not just adults.
A woman's anger about the mental load is usually desperation to be seen, not an attack.
Notice and do beats chore charts because it teaches kids to spot what needs doing, not just complete a task on command.
Couples spend roughly 1,500 hours planning a wedding and about three planning the actual marriage.
Dividing bigger recurring responsibilities, instead of splitting every single task, takes the mental load off just one partner's plate.
 
Links & Resources
Sam Kelly (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/samkelly_world
Notice and Do (Sam's book) on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0063460912
Dad Edge Alliance (October Bonuses): https://thedadedge.com/join
Dad Edge Day at State Farm Stadium: https://thedadedge.com/nfl
The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1542
 
Closing
Sam didn't let either of us off easy in this one, and that's exactly why it mattered. The moment that's going to stick with me is admitting on air that I've been a dad for 20 years and never once walked my own boys through a notice exercise, something as simple as pointing at a trash can and saying "here's the line." If this conversation made you want to stop managing your house and start teaching it, go take your own kids on a noticing walk this week. Go out and live legendary.

Traver Boehm is back on the show for the third time, and I still remember his first story like it was yesterday. He's a former professional MMA fighter and bodyguard with a master's degree in traditional Chinese medicine, a hospice volunteer, more than 11 years sober, and the founder of the Uncivilized movement. He's the author of Today I Rise, Uncivilized, and 28 Days in Darkness, and he has now spent 77 days of his life in complete darkness, including 49 straight days in a dark room in Tuscany with no phone, no people, and no clock.
We talk about what it takes to stop running from yourself, the fragmentation I see in so many men, and the morning a phrase landed so hard that Traver dropped to his knees. We also get honest about suicide, why men need to pick up the phone, and what a relationship with yourself does for your marriage and your kids. If you're a dad who feels the drift of busyness and wonders who you really are underneath it, this conversation is for you.
 
Timeline Summary
[1:01] Larry welcomes Traver Boehm back for his third time on the show
[4:32] Larry introduces Traver: MMA fighter, bodyguard, hospice volunteer, 11 years sober, and 77 days in the dark
[6:01] How 2016 brought a lost pregnancy, a divorce, and a lost business, and the question of who he was as a man
[8:27] Fragmentation: the man everyone sees, the man his family sees, and the man nobody sees
[10:26] Why Traver felt called back into the dark after his father died
[11:49] The call about his cousin's death that pushed him to write his book and go back into darkness
[19:09] Terror and acceptance: why a true initiation has to carry the risk of a breakdown
[23:04] A message to men in dark times: pick up the phone, because we want you to reach out
[28:52] The mantra One Life, All In: why a man is meant to live one life, not a public, private, and secret one
[30:35] The morning a word came to him while pacing the dark mile and dropped him to his knees
[36:34] Day 45: the hardest morning of the 49 days, and the guide who sensed it from afar
[46:44] Walking out on day 49: the sunrise, birds, and tears after seven weeks without light
[50:20] Welcome back to reality: credit card fraud, a rough landing, and a year of reorganizing
[54:32] The core lesson: your relationship with yourself changes every other relationship
[57:13] Questions every father should answer, and why kids need a dad who knows himself
[1:00:52] Larry on human doing versus human being, and what he avoids with distraction
 
Key Takeaways
You don't have to wait for a crisis to ask who you are as a man, and one quiet hour with yourself is a good place to start.
Keeping the public, private, and secret versions of yourself apart drains your energy, and living one life gives it back.
If you're in a dark place, pick up the phone and tell someone, because the people who love you would rather hear from you than lose you.
Everything you build on top of a relationship with yourself is a bonus, and chasing success to fill that void never works.
Your kids get a better father when you can honestly answer what you want and whether this is the life you want to live.
 
Links & Resources
28 Days in Darkness by Traver Boehm: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=28+days+in+darkness 
Dad Edge Alliance (October Bonuses): https://thedadedge.com/join
Dad Edge Day at State Farm Stadium: https://thedadedge.com/nfl
The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1541
 
Closing
Traver said the most important relationship we have is the one with ourselves, and I've been asking myself those same questions ever since we stopped recording. I told him I can't sit still for 30 minutes, and that tells me I have some work to do on what I'm avoiding with distraction. So this week, take one hour, ask the man in the mirror how he's really doing, and ask your wife whether she's happy. And if you're in a dark place right now, call someone today. Go out and live legendary.

This week I sat down with Jordan Raynor, a bestselling author, serial entrepreneur, and one of the leading voices in the faith and work movement. Jordan wrote Called to Create, Redeeming Your Time, The Creator in You, and his newest book, Redeeming Your Goals, and he's the executive chairman of Threshold 360 after stepping down as CEO to write full time. He has been married since 2009, is a dad to three daughters, and he asks a much better question than most goal-setting gurus: who are we becoming while we chase these goals?
We started with the all-boys versus all-girls dad debate, and I told the story of a sold-out daddy daughter retreat that left me with serious FOMO. From there we got into the Tim Keller book that changed Jordan's faith, the day his kids' drawings of the family left him out and he gave his board 15 months notice, and the nightly ritual that keeps his phone out of his hands from 5 p.m. to 6:37 a.m. If you're a dad who wants to stop compartmentalizing your faith, your work, and your family, this one is for you.
 
Timeline Summary
[1:01] Larry welcomes Jordan, and the two compare life raising all girls versus all boys
[2:25] Larry shares how a sold-out daddy daughter retreat with 12 dads and 12 daughters became his favorite event
[10:27] Larry introduces Jordan: bestselling author, serial entrepreneur, and faith and work voice
[12:23] Jordan explains how he became a Google Fellow running a political tech company
[13:58] Jordan on his faith, his first campaign at 17, and why he left politics for entrepreneurship
[18:23] Jordan credits Tim Keller and The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness with changing how he follows Jesus
[22:05] Jordan tells the story of meeting his wife at Florida State and two years in the friend zone
[28:56] Jordan on writing his first book, Called to Create, and betting on himself as a full-time writer
[33:05] Why Jordan gave his board 15 months notice as CEO after his kids drew family pictures without him
[38:12] Why Jordan refuses to compartmentalize faith, marriage, parenting, and work
[42:11] Two practical steps: remember God cares about your work, and pray in short silent moments all day
[44:08] Jordan's phone ritual: no phone from 5 p.m. to 6:37 a.m. so his kids see his full presence
[50:27] A study showing kids run the bases faster and make fewer mistakes when parents aren't on their phones
[51:56] Redeeming Your Goals: seven principles, 58 practices, a no template, and kill criteria for strategic quitting
[57:00] Jordan's family goal to love like Jesus, and his 12-year-old raising money to send two orphans to college
[1:03:23] Jordan shares where to find him and how preordering Redeeming Your Goals enters you to win $4,000
 
Five Key Takeaways
God cares about your work, so you don't have to live in separate worlds for your faith, your job, and your family.
Short, silent prayers throughout the workday, even a sticky note that says pray, invite God into ordinary work.
Turn your phone into a landline after work, and your kids get your presence instead of your leftover attention.
Set kill criteria for a goal or strategy ahead of time, so you quit on purpose instead of on emotion.
Write down a family goal and review it every quarter, because confident kids come from a clear target and a loving example.
 
Links & Resources
Jordan Raynor: https://jordanraynor.com
Redeeming Your Goals (preorder before October 16 to enter the $4,000 giveaway): https://jordanraynor.com/redeeming-your-goals
The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness by Tim Keller: https://gospelinlife.com/book/the-freedom-of-self-forgetfulness
Dad Edge Alliance (October Bonuses): https://thedadedge.com/join
Dad Edge Day at State Farm Stadium: https://thedadedge.com/nfl
The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1549
 
Closing
Jordan said he can't imagine a more valuable present to give his kids than his presence, and that line has stayed with me. I've watched a mom at my son's soccer game barely look up while her little boy banged on the glass for attention, and I don't want to be that dad for even one day. If this conversation moved you, pick two hours tonight, put your phone in another room, and give your family everything you've got. Go out and live legendary.

This week I sat down with Adam Ukman, the founder of The Dads Initiative, a media company built entirely around a question almost nobody else in men's media is asking: where's the content for the normal dad? About a year ago, Adam launched The Dads Initiative after noticing men's media split into two toxic lanes, anger and blame, and set out to build a third lane for guys just trying to show up and do their best. His team surveyed more than 1,300 fathers and found that when asked which father figure in media actually reflects who they are, the most common answer was "nobody," a gap his shows, like the confidence-focused Reset Mode and the golf-and-life show Cart Talk, are built to fill.
This is also just a deeply personal conversation. Adam lives in Fort Collins, Colorado, has been married to his wife, Jessica, for over a decade, and is dad to a three-year-old son named Noah. We get into the alter egos he leans on as a father, including a surprising nod to Jonathan Roumie's portrayal of Jesus in The Chosen, the mentor who taught him that confidence starts with keeping your word to yourself, and the simple, unglamorous rituals, a standing Thursday lunch date, a Friday afternoon date day, that keep his marriage on the front burner instead of the back burner.
 
Timeline Summary
[1:44] Adam joins Larry, and the two dive right into the mission behind The Dads Initiative, which Adam launched about a year earlier
[3:25] Adam shares that he lives in Fort Collins, Colorado
[6:36] Larry introduces Adam's full story: over a decade of marriage, a son named Noah, and a media company built around content for men who happen to be fathers, not more parenting lectures
[9:27] Larry and Adam discuss the loneliness so many men report and the need for men's media to offer "better company"
[12:16] Adam breaks down why triggering, divisive content gets rewarded by social algorithms while hopeful, genuine content struggles to break through
[18:43] Adam introduces his research study of more than 1,300 fathers on how they experience their own identity and fatherhood in the media
[20:28] The study's most common answer for a father figure in media who reflects them was "nobody," with only Bluey's dad, Bandit, and Pa from Little House on the Prairie standing out as exceptions
[23:05] Study finding: two-thirds of dads said they'd rather be seen as a strong, independent, protective provider than simply a kind, caring one
[30:28] Adam walks through Todd Herman's Alter Ego Effect framework and the archetypes he personally draws on as a father, including Jonathan Roumie's portrayal of Jesus in The Chosen for compassion and calm
[35:29] Adam highlights The Dads Initiative's golf show, Cart Talk, hosted by Paul Sullivan, and a recent episode featuring golf writer Tom Coyne on his decade of sobriety
[42:18] Adam shares a mentor's lesson that confidence starts with keeping your word to yourself and others
[46:34] Adam reflects on what he wants his three-year-old son, Noah, to "catch" from watching him: decency, curiosity, and respect
[57:12] Adam and Larry talk about modeling apology and ownership for their kids instead of avoiding it
[1:03:12] Adam describes protecting his marriage with a standing Thursday lunch date and a longer Friday afternoon date day
[1:05:33] Adam references the book Us, by therapist Terrence Real, on making relationship decisions as a unit rather than as individuals
[1:10:26] Adam shares where to find The Dads Initiative and its Substack, and closes with the episode number for the show notes
 
Five Key Takeaways
Most dads don't need another lecture, they need better company, which is the whole reason Adam built The Dads Initiative.
Confidence starts with keeping your word to yourself, not just intending to.
An interested dad is the most interesting dad on the block, curiosity beats lecturing every time.
Protecting your marriage takes an actual calendar entry, not just good intentions.
Apologizing to your kids builds more respect, not less.
 
Links & Resources
The Dads Initiative: https://www.dadsinitiative.com
The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1546
 
Closing
Adam's not out here trying to convince anyone he's got fatherhood figured out. He's the guy who still gets dragged some mornings, who's had to rebuild his marriage's front burner on purpose, and who apologizes to his own three-year-old rather than pull rank. If this conversation reminded you that showing up imperfectly still counts as showing up, go set your own Thursday lunch date. Go out and live legendary.

Justin Pickering spent nearly two decades in U.S. Army Special Forces, retiring as a Green Beret Sergeant Major with the 7th Special Forces Group, earning a Purple Heart and five Bronze Stars along the way. He's now an entrepreneur, real estate investor, and author of The Deliberate Mindset, a book built from his own collapse and recovery after coming home from his final deployment.
In this episode, Justin joins Larry to talk about the moment his youngest son didn't recognize him after his final deployment, the flashback that sent him to check himself into a psychological care program, and the five pillars he built to rebuild his marriage and fatherhood from the ground up.
Timeline Summary
[2:12] Larry opens with the moment Justin's youngest son, then five years old, looked at him after his final deployment and asked, "Who are you?"
[5:34] Justin's middle son, seven at the time, tells him he wishes he had died overseas after a week of nonstop new discipline at home.
[8:25] Justin describes why combat felt peaceful to him: one task, one standard, and a clear drill for every threat.
[11:40] Justin shares that he was depressed, medicated, and losing friends to suicide, and started wondering if he'd be the next statistic.
[13:05] Justin explains how watching elite Green Berets take their own lives led him to build the blueprint that became his book.
[15:06] Larry formally introduces Justin's record: two decades in Army Special Forces, a Green Beret Sergeant Major, a Purple Heart, and five Bronze Stars.
[20:47] Justin begins the story of his breaking point, a 30 day span that changed everything.
[22:51] During a disagreement on the family farm, Justin has a flashback and mistakes his 12 year old son for a disrespectful Afghan elder.
[24:44] Justin drives himself straight to base afterward and checks into the psychological performance program.
[25:05] Justin initially refuses medication, having watched his mother's lifelong struggle with pill addiction end in her death.
[25:59] Blood work reveals extremely high cortisol levels, explaining why Justin was constantly on edge after multiple deployments.
[27:26] Justin introduces the five pillars behind his recovery: gratitude, framing and reframing, controlling the controllable, action over perfection, and the power of words and thoughts.
[27:45] Justin admits he later stopped his medication cold turkey without telling his wife or his doctor, a decision he's explicit about not recommending to anyone else.
[35:04] Justin shares how reframing "I have to" into "I get to" changed his relationship with his kids, starting with school drop off.
[1:02:57] Justin tells the story of a blown trailer tire on the drive home from Florida, and how his new mindset replaced "Pickering luck" with gratitude.
[1:07:05] Justin shares where to find his book, his business, and his weekly newsletter, The Sunday Compass.
Five Key Takeaways
Coming home can be its own deployment. Justin says combat felt simpler than fatherhood because it had clear tasks and standards. Reentry doesn't come with a manual, and that gap is where a lot of men get lost.
Watch for the moment you stop feeling anything at all. Justin describes years on medication where he wasn't angry, but he also wasn't happy, sad, or anything else. Numb is not the same as healed.
The five pillars are simple on purpose: gratitude, reframing, controlling the controllable, action over perfection, and watching your words. None of them are new. What matters is actually doing them.
A single word swap can change a relationship. Justin changed "I have to take the kids to school" to "I get to take the kids to school," and silent car rides turned into conversations his kids will remember for decades.
Never stop medication or change a treatment plan without your doctor. Justin is explicit that going cold turkey off his prescription without telling his wife or his doctor was the wrong way to do it, even though it worked out for him.
Links & Resources
The Deliberate Mindset: https://www.amazon.com/Deliberate-Mindset-Overthinking-Resilience-Intentional/dp/B0GXMTCWSX
The Deliberate Blueprint: https://deliberateblueprint.com
Find Justin on Facebook/Instagram: https://www.facebook.com/justin.pickering.927/, https://www.instagram.com/thedeliberateblueprint/
Dad Edge Alliance (October Bonuses): https://thedadedge.com/join
Dad Edge Day at State Farm Stadium: https://thedadedge.com/nfl
The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1539
Closing
Justin's story is proof that the strongest men still break, and that breaking isn't the end of the story. The dad who once told his own son "I'm going to have to defend myself" is the same dad now driving his kids to school and calling it a gift instead of a chore. If anything in this episode hit close to home, whether it's PTSD, a mental health crisis, or the loss of someone to suicide, the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline (call or text 988) is there any time you need to talk to someone. Go out and live legendary.