Unmade: media and marketing analysis

• 'Nothing is more powerful than an authentic host read' - How Earmax is finding a place as Australia's first podcast media agency

  Welcome to an audio-led edition of Unmade. On the day the annual Infinite Dial results exploring audio adoption patterns in Australia are released, we discuss the planning and buying of podcast advertising.Sign up for an annual paid membership of Unmade before June 30 and you’ll receive a huge additional benefit - a complimentary membership of Mumbrella Pro, usually priced at $790. It’s our best ever end of financial year offer.Along with all of our paywalled content, your annual Unmade membership gets you tickets to September’s REmade conference on retail media; to October’s Unlock conference on marketing in the nighttime economy; and to Unmade’s Compass end-of-year roadshow.And Mumbrella Pro contains an extensive archive of presentations from Mumbrella’s conferences, including last month’s Mumbrella 360, along with the industry’s most detailed database of brand and agency rosters.‘Too many brands are still thinking about reach when they're thinking about podcast advertising, and a successful campaign being about cheap CPMs.’A year on from the launch of Australia’s first, and to date only, media agency specialising in the planning and buying of podcast advertising, we check in with the team at Earmax - Andy Maxwell and Ralph van Dijk.Maxwell and van Dijk linked up to launch Earmax a year ago. Prior to coming to Australia, Maxwell spent most of his career in the UK, working within marketing and podcasting, while van Dijk is adland’s elder statesman of audio, having run specialist radio agency Eardrum for 35 years. During the podcast conversation with Unmade’s Tim Burrowes, the duo discuss the high engagement levels of podcast listeners, why reach isn’t everything, and the challenges of the specialist agency cutting through in the market.According to Maxwell: “As a podcast listener, you hear how much wastage there is, you hear how you get served the wrong ads in the wrong environments. When you do get served the right ads it’s powerful.”Maxwell argues that one of the major errors being made by marketers and planners is making conversations about podcasts one of reach rather than specialisation. He argues: “One of the big issues itself is that people are still thinking about reach and incremental reach, when actually the podcast medium should be about driving consideration and conversions.“These big brands, you can get your reach from everywhere else, but podcasts, because of the environment, because of how engaged the audience is, you have such a massive opportunity, whether the reach is 100,000 or a million.“You can find a specific audience interested in a specific subject and get them in an environment where they are so leaned in.”He adds: “Too many brands are still thinking about reach when they're thinking about podcast advertising and a successful campaign being about cheap CPMs. Five podcasts of 50,000 listeners is more effective than one podcast of 250,000.”Meanwhile, van Dijk is frank about the pace of adoption of Earmax in the market, saying it has gone more slowly than he anticipated. He says: “I just thought that word would catch on and they'd all be telling their mates and there would be people banging down the door to have us look at their campaigns.“The reality is that there's structures, processes, arrangements, partnerships in place for both the creative and the media, which a tough decision has to be made to go around that.”He adds: “There's a lot of politics.”Today’s podcast was edited by Abe’s Audio. We’ll be back with more tomorrow.In the meantime, don’t forget to join us for The Infinite Dial Australia, in a couple of hours.I’m hosting a conversation with ARN Media’s Lauren Joyce, Thinkerbell’s Margie Reid, and Edison Research’s Larry Rosin about the state of play in audio. Have a great dayToodlepip…Tim BurrowesPublisher - Unmade + [email protected] This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.unmade.media/subscribe

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• 'The moats are gone' Unmade's Compass live at Mumbrella360

  Welcome to an audio-led edition of Unmade.Today’s edition contains highlights from the finale of Mumbrella360, with our Compass panel reflecting on FY25 and projecting for FY26. Plus, Vinyl Group is the worst performer on the Unmade Index for a second day in a row.To get maximum value from a paid membership of Unmade, sign up today.Your annual membership gets you tickets to September’s REmade conference on retail media; to October’s Unlock conference on marketing in the nighttime economy; and to Unmade’s Compass end-of-year roadshow.You also get access to our paywalled archive.Upgrade today.AI b******t; agency ageism; and finding reasons for optimism - Compass live from Mumbrella360It was a strong finish to Mumbrella360, with our Compass format coming to the conference for the first time.In a panel moderated by Tim Burrowes, we heard from Josh Faulks, CEO of the Australian Association of National Advertisers, Natalie Harvey, CEO of Mamamia; Jacquie Alley, chair of the Independent Media Agencies Association and John Schoolcraft, the brains behind the Oatly brand.In a fast-paced conversation, the panel romped across topics including the benefits and perils of LinkedIn, the state of the market, and the permanent staple of the effectiveness versus creativity debateSchoolcraft, who earlier in the day had delivered Mumbrella360’s opening keynote, focused on the sweeping changes being caused by generative AI: “The moats are gone now - AI just leveled the playing field.”Faulks was slightly more sceptical and argued that concerns about job losses in the industry are overblown: ”We’re hitting the peak of the AI hype cycle. There’s a lot of b******t. I don’t think it’s about job losses. We spend way too much time talking about the bad things that could happen with AI and not enough on the opportunities.”Alley nominated a topic that requires more discussion: “The ageism that sits in this industry. My prediction is that strategic thinking is only going to get more important. I’m hopeful the more experienced employees will finally start to be valued. They (clients) want the head of strategy in the retainer… Experienced people aren’t billable, and that’s a problem.”And Harvey urged publishers and platforms to seek a peace process: “With the globals, the challenge is, it’s not about creativity, it’s about mass reach and getting things cheaper. That’s what’s weird about the fight with Australian publishers - we make their platforms better.”More from Mumbrella…* Schwartz Media to sell 7am podcast* Ten names The Project’s replacement news show: Ten News+* Adam Sadler to lead Scentre Group’s Brandspace retail media push* M+C Saatchi kills off Bohemia brand* Starcom appoints Matt Houltham as CEO* Mumbrellacast: The Project and Q+A get the boot; Challenges women face in media; and Greg Hywood’s verdict on NineUnmade Index grows as Vinyl falls againVinyl Group saw the biggest fall on the Unmade Index for the second day in a row on Wednesday. It lost 4.2% to land on a market capitalisation of $144m.Vinyl had briefly traded on a bigger valuation than audio companies Southern Cross Austereo and ARN Media. SCA gained 1.6% to land on $152m; ARN lost 1.9% to land on $158m.Elsewhere on the Unmade Index, Ooh Media gained 2.5% and Nine gained 1.6%.The Unmade Index closed up 1.1% on 564.1 points.Today’s podcast was edited by Abe’s Audio. We’ll be back with more soon.Have a great dayToodlepip…Tim BurrowesPublisher - Unmade + [email protected] This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.unmade.media/subscribe

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• Clive Dickens on harnessing the AI opportunity as traditional jobs go away

  Welcome to an audio-led edition of Unmade.Today, we talk to Clive Dickens, one of media’s innovators, about what he’ll be doing next.To get maximum value from a paid membership of Unmade, sign up today.Your annual membership gets you tickets to September’s REmade conference on retail media; to October’s Unlock conference on marketing in the nighttime economy; and to Unmade’s Compass end-of-year roadshow.You also get access to our paywalled archive.Upgrade today.Clive Dickens unveils his plans for Meliora, something that’s a little more than a typical media consultancy After some big digital roles at Southern Cross Austereo, Seven West Media and Optus, Clive Dickens launching a media advisory service seems a logical next step. Particularly when you factor in some big radio jobs in the UK along with proximity to some successful audio startups.But Meliora appears to be a little more than your typical one-person, stay-occupied-until-something-else-comes-up advisory. Dickens says that he’s recurited another five partners to eventually join the business, and in the meantime identified another 10 “associates” to fill the gap in the mean time.He also plans an investment arm which will focus on startups, and additionally a creative IP fund to put money behind interesting creators.Dickens expands on his plans in the podcast interview with Unmade’s Tim Burrowes.He says: “They're not just investments. They're partners. The significant number are in the AI space. And we want to bring and leverage some of those products and services to our clients as well to help them unlock that AI value.”The conversation also touches on his plans around media equity - working with media companies to offer distressed inventory in exchange for stakes in busiensses that need to build their profile. It was a model he successfully applied on behalf of Seven West Media with Airtasker.And he says that his plan to invest in creative work is in part at least a response to the disruption being caused by generative AI. “In a world where there's going to be less traditional jobs because of gen AI, we wanted to invest in jobs that we believe only humans will be able to do.”More from Mumbrella…* Getting ahead and the importance of progress to brands* Brittany Higgins joins Third Hemisphere* Free TV chair Greg Hywood steps down* Is the PR industry still a great place to work?Today’s podcast was edited by Abe’s Audio.Time to leave you to your evening. We’ll be back with more tomorrow.Have a great dayToodlepip…Tim BurrowesPublisher - Unmade + [email protected] This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.unmade.media/subscribe

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• Live from m360: The Unmade-Mumbrellacast crossover episode

  Welcome to an audio-led edition of Unmade, recorded earlier today live on stage at Mumbrella360. To get maximum value from a paid membership of Unmade, sign up today.Your annual membership gets you tickets to September’s REmade conference on retail media; to October’s Unlock conference on marketing in the nighttime economy; and to Unmade’s Compass end-of-year roadshow.You also get access to our paywalled archive.Upgrade today.Radio salaries; the rise of LinkedIn video, Google’s AI video magic and the Mumbrella360 origin storyToday’s podcast was recorded live on stage at Mumbrella360 this afternoon.In a panel anchored by Abe’s Audio’s Abe Udy, editorial director Hal Crawford, head of curation Cat McGinn and Tim Burrowes were joined by Genero marketer Christie Poulos.We chewed over highlights from Mumbrella360 including creator Rob Mayhew’s assertion that LinkedIn and YouTube provide the greatest opportunity for B2B video creators. We also discussed this week’s ranking of radio salaries, the impact of Google’s new video generation offering Veo 3, and the development of Mumbrella360 over the last 14 years.More from the Mumbrella departure lounge…* David Droga steps down as Accenture Song CEO* Justin Graham to step down as APAC CEO of M+C Saatchi Group* Coles' chief customer officer Amanda McVay to depart amid overhaulToday’s podcast was edited by Abe’s Audio. Time to leave you to your afternoon. We’ll be back with more tomorrow.Have a great dayToodlepip…Tim BurrowesPublisher - Unmade + [email protected] This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.unmade.media/subscribe

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• Live at HumAIn: 'It's the garden of Eden with no weeds.' How AI is driving a second coming for chatbots

  Welcome to an audio-led edition of Unmade. Today’s Unmade podcast was recorded at last month’s AI conference HumAIn, with a panel of practitioners exploring the evolving role of AI chatbots in media and marketing, highlighting the wide spectrum from chatbots as utility, and chatbots as personality.Today is a good day to upgrade to a paid membership of Unmade. Your annual membership includes:* A complimentary ticket to all of Unmade’s events, including our retail media conference REmade (September 23), Unlock (October), and Compass (across November)* Member-only content and our paywalled archives;* Your own copy of Media Unmade.Upgrade today.As a member of the Unmade community you have unlocked exclusive ticket savings to attend Mumbrella360, taking place at Carriageworks Sydney next week, May 27-29.Simply enter code 20UNMADE360 to save 20% on any ticket type, whether that's the all-access pass or the 'conference only' two-day pass.From sludge to snark: the divide between form and function in AI chatbotsCat McGinn, curator of HumAIn, writes:With generative AI finally giving brands the opportunity to roll out chatbots that work, we tackled the topic at HumAIn.The discussion features Foxtel’s head of marketing operations and strategic programs Aaron Mitchie, Bastion’s AI consultant Shaun Davies, columnist and strategist at Agency C, Parnell Palme McGuinness, and creative director Emma Barbato. McGuinness and Davies discussed the development of “Yell At Parnell”, a chatbot trained on McGuinness’s published columns, and designed to replicate her editorial tone and views. The aim was to extend engagement beyond the limitations of comment sections and to experiment with scaling an opinion columnist’s voice. Davies noted that prompt engineering required over 4,000 words to capture not only factual grounding but also the columnist’s personality, including humour, tone, and political perspectives.“There is a desperate desire to engage, and this is another opportunity for people to engage. I think that they would also like that opportunity to be supported by the media outlets they're engaging with; I think that it would reverse in some degree the decline in users,” said McGuinness, pointing to closed comments as a missed opportunity for newsrooms.Creative director Emma Barbato took it further, introducing Bruce Ryder, Australia’s first fictional AI celebrity, a 1970s larrikin launched as a synthetic brand ambassador (see video below). Audiences bought into Bruce rather than the product: “The intrigue was the storytelling, and him as the product,” she said. Barbato highlighted the creative opportunities available to brands when working with immersive, character-led AI tools, particularly in environments unconstrained by conventional briefs.In contrast, Foxtel’s Aaron Mitchie outlined a strictly functional approach. His team is rolling out a bot to eliminate internal admin, trained on corporate policies. “We’re purposely trying to be boring,” he said. “The idea is eventually everyone's going to get back a day in their week back from admin.”The panel also raised questions around the ethics of disclosure with users, synthetic identities, emotional attachment to bots, and the future role of anthropomorphised AI in consumer engagement. Barbato ended the panel with a rallying cry for the creative industries, saying, “For the first time in my time in the creative arts, we have no hierarchy of anyone being better. We have zero gatekeepers, and it has attracted a brand new creative. And that's what I'm the most excited about: the community that is coming together. I don't know how long we've got. But right now, it’s a garden of Eden with no weeds.”More from Mumbrella…* Mumbrellacast: ABC, SBS and the gender pay gaps data; inside outdoor media; marketers and Google’s AI Mode; Resolution Digital’s new chapter* SBS beats ABC as gender pay gaps revealed* Catalano slams SCA activist investor over vote meddling* Tropfest organisers hint at ‘epic comeback’* Google launches AI Mode, marketers ponder impact* M+C Saatchi CEO Michael McEwan joins Droga5 MelbourneToday’s podcast was edited by Abe’s Audio.We’ll be back in your inbox tomorrow or on your podcatcher next week. Adios amigos,Cat McGinnCurator - [email protected] This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.unmade.media/subscribe

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