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BE THAT LAWYER

Steve Fretzin
BE THAT LAWYER
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  • Chris Ducker: Building a Business That Truly Supports the Life You Want
    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Chris Ducker discuss:The role of coaching and masterminds in personal and professional growthThe importance of niching down in business and brandingBalancing lifestyle design with entrepreneurship and long-term successLearning from mistakes and validating ideas before scaling Key Takeaways:Niching down to serve a very specific audience allows you to attract ideal clients while repelling the wrong ones, making growth easier and more sustainable.Accountability in mastermind groups is critical because peers will hold you to your commitments and prevent you from operating in isolation.Building a life-first business means setting boundaries, like working only Monday to Thursday and pre-scheduling family time before business commitments.One of the biggest entrepreneurial mistakes is failing to validate an idea; rushing into a business without testing the model can waste significant money and months of effort. "Burnout isn’t a badge of honor, it’s a warning sign that you’ve been doing what you’ve been doing wrong, and maybe for too long as well." —  Chris Ducker Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Chris Ducker: Chris Ducker is a serial entrepreneur, keynote speaker, and bestselling author of Virtual Freedom and Rise of the Youpreneur. As the founder of three multi–seven–figure businesses over the course of his 20-year entrepreneurial career, he has helped thousands of entrepreneurs build personal brand businesses that stand the test of time. His work has been featured in major media outlets, including Forbes, Entrepreneur, and INC.Known for his straight-talking style and British humor, Chris is passionate about helping leaders avoid burnout while building careers they love. Connect with Chris Ducker:  Website: https://chrisducker.com/Book: The Long-Haul Leader: https://longhaulleader.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisduckerInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrisducker/  Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911  Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 
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  • Joanne Black: The Mindset and Language Shifts That Transform Referral Success
    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Joanne Black discuss:The challenges and misconceptions around asking for referralsHow language and specificity shape successful client introductionsThe role of accountability, systems, and consistency in business developmentBuilding stronger client relationships through follow-up, gratitude, and personal touches Key Takeaways:Asking vague questions like “if you know anybody” rarely works, because clients don’t know where to start, so the key is to guide them back to the original problem you solved for them, and then ask who else they know facing a similar situation.A referral isn’t just a name tossed over email—it works best when the referrer is given the right language, context, and a short, business-focused reason for the introduction so that the new contact immediately understands the value of meeting with you.When a referred contact goes silent or “ghosts,” the most effective strategy is to circle back to the person who made the introduction, ask for clarity, and if necessary, use a polite but direct subject line like “referrals on hold?” to spark closure or next steps.Referrals are sustained not just by doing great work but also by building ongoing trust and goodwill through systems of accountability, consistent follow-up, and thoughtful personal touches like handwritten thank-you notes that make clients eager to refer again. "Asking for help is the strongest thing you can do." —  Joanne Black Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ Episode References: Atomic Habits by James Clear: https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Habits-Proven-Build-Break/dp/0735211299About Joanne Black: Joanne Black is America's leading authority on referral selling. (She's not bragging—her publisher gave her that moniker, and she's taking it.) Some of Joanne’s views are contrarian and, in the established school of traditional business, considered heretical thinking. But for Joanne Black and her clients, the only smart approach to client acquisition is referral selling.“Your clients can be your biggest competitive advantage,” she says. “They will be thrilled to refer you. Having your clients advocate for you is your strongest form of client acquisition and retention.”She works with sales leaders and their teams to drive revenue with referrals. In particular, she works with attorneys who want and need to grow their practice, but don't want to sell. Connect with Joanne Black:  Website: https://www.nomorecoldcalling.com/Email: [email protected]: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanneblackreferralsales/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 
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  • BE THAT LAWYER LIVE Part 2: Building Lasting Client Relationships Through Authenticity and Consistency
    What separates lawyers who struggle from those who thrive? In this special Part 2 of Be That Lawyer Live, you’ll discover how our guests integrate authenticity, focus, and thought leadership into their daily practice to create long-term growth. You’ll hear how staying true to yourself, choosing opportunities wisely, and turning passions into professional strengths can open unexpected doors. This is not about chasing quick wins—it’s about building a practice that’s sustainable, rewarding, and deeply connected. Lean in, because what you’ll hear today will challenge how you see your career and your future. In this episode, Steve, Tina, John, and Leslee discuss:The importance of authenticity in building and sustaining client relationshipsBalancing personal life, career demands, and business development commitmentsCreative strategies for leveraging events, panels, and thought leadershipMaintaining consistency and momentum in rainmaking efforts over the long term Key Takeaways:Sharing authentic parts of who you are—whether it’s your passions, personal stories, or even hobbies—creates deeper connections with clients and colleagues, making business development feel more natural and sustainable.Learning to say “no” to opportunities that don’t align with your goals or values is just as critical as saying “yes,” because it protects your time, energy, and ability to excel in the areas that truly matter.Positioning yourself as a thought leader through speaking on panels, moderating events, and writing articles not only demonstrates expertise but also consistently attracts the right kind of clients and referrals.Long-term success in rainmaking comes from treating business development as an ongoing habit integrated into daily life, rather than a separate task, so it becomes part of who you are and how you work. "Bottom line, listen. You have to listen to what people are saying… because that is how you end up developing an authentic relationship." —  Tina Martini "You can’t underestimate the trust factor here, the likability factor here, the authenticity factor here… when somebody trusts you and believes in you to such a degree that you can handle their legal matters all under one roof." —  John Sciaccotta "If someone invites you to an event, go… if someone wants you there, be there… and then for me, the biggest thing… is just constant giving. And I’m really, I’m not even like, this is authentically me… always thinking about how to help someone else. " —  Leslee Cohen Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, launching August 25, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About our Guests:Tina Martini is a partner at McDermott Will and Schulte, specializing in intellectual property. [LinkedIn | Website]John Sciaccotta is a partner/lawyer at Aronberg Goldgehn, a business litigator, and past president of the Chicago Bar Association [LinkedIn] | Website].Leslee Cohen is the managing partner at AllRise Legal, working with startups from seed to exit [LinkedIn | Website].Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 
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  • BE THAT LAWYER LIVE Part 1: The Lawyers Rainmaking Playbook for Mindset, Networking, and Strategic Action
    What if your legal career could shift from unpredictable to unstoppable simply by changing your approach to relationships and opportunity? In this special Part 1 of Be That Lawyer Live, you’ll hear how our guests weave business development seamlessly into their daily lives, turning everyday interactions into potential gold mines. You’ll discover how being intentional, showing up in the right rooms, and giving more than you take can open doors you never saw coming. This conversation isn’t about quick hacks—it’s about building a sustainable, thriving practice while staying authentic to who you are. Stay tuned, because what you’ll hear today could completely transform the way you think about your career.In this episode, Steve, Tina, John, and Leslee discuss:The mindset required for consistent and effective business developmentTime management and prioritization strategies for building a book of businessNetworking and relationship-building approaches, both in-person and onlineLeveraging unique strategies, associations, and presentations to generate opportunities Key Takeaways:Integrating business development into daily routines—such as keeping a recurring BD calendar reminder—ensures consistent action and prevents missed opportunities.Targeting groups, associations, or events where competitors are absent can create unique opportunities for both direct work and valuable referrals.Building a referral-rich network through bar associations, community boards, and alumni groups can yield substantial long-term results.Creating and offering a targeted, educational presentation to relevant audiences can consistently produce new clients. "Seeing the opportunity even when it looks when it doesn't necessarily look like opportunity is what's so important here." —  Tina Martini"If you don't make the time to build your own book a business, you are always going to be beholden to someone else." —  John Sciaccotta"Anyone is a potential client, and that just has to always be in your mindset." —  Leslee Cohen Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, launching August 25, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About our Guests:Tina Martini is a partner at McDermott Will and Schulte, specializing in intellectual property. [LinkedIn | Website].John Sciaccotta is a partner/lawyer at Aronberg Goldgehn, a business litigator, and past president of the Chicago Bar Association [LinkedIn] | Website].Leslee Cohen is the managing partner at AllRise Legal, working with startups from seed to exit [LinkedIn | Website]. Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 
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  • Jordan Whelan: How Targeted Strategy and Inner Work Drive Legal Success
    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jordan Whelan discuss:The evolving landscape of legal marketing and SEO strategiesIdentifying and targeting the right audience through buyer personasLeveraging video, local SEO, and low-cost marketing tactics for visibilityThe role of mindset, metaphysics, and visualization in business growth Key Takeaways:A law firm’s website must be technically optimized and emotionally resonant, clearly communicating its unique value proposition to convert visitors.Targeted marketing—such as divorce ads placed during peak conflict hours on female-dominated radio stations—can dramatically improve campaign effectiveness.Inexpensive tactics like geo-targeted short videos, active engagement on platforms like Quora and Reddit, and cross-platform posting tools can generate steady traffic.Building SEO authority, particularly in local search, creates long-term assets that not only drive business now but also increase the firm’s valuation for future sale. "If you see yourself as someone who’s struggling, you’ll see that reflected to you in the outside world constantly." —  Jordan Whelan Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, launching August 25, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jordan Whelan: Jordan Whelan is the founder of Grey Smoke Media. With a background as a TV and radio producer and a publicist, he has managed over $3 billion in class action claims communications. He spent a decade mastering media buying (managing over $50 million in spend) and digital marketing, achieving the proverbial 10,000 hours of practice.Under his leadership, Grey Smoke Media helped Diamond and Diamond Lawyers grow from a small practice to Canada’s top injury and real estate law firm. Before rebranding Grey Smoke Media as a legal marketing agency, Whelan worked with publicly traded pharmaceutical companies, the Pan Am Games, Brookfield Asset Management, Intact Financial Corporation, and crypto powerhouses such as Coinsquare.Whelan’s insights have appeared in over 100 international outlets, including The New York Post and Forbes. In his personal time, he is an accomplished singer-songwriter with over 3 million streams on Spotify.Uniquely, Whelan provides metaphysics-based business coaching that blends mindset mastery, wealth expansion, and energetic alignment to help his clients unlock their highest potential. Connect with Jordan Whelan:  Website: http://www.greysmokemedia.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jordanjpower/Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: [email protected]: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 
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About BE THAT LAWYER

BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.
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