In this miniseries, we’re exploring Depthfinding—an easy-to-grasp framework designed to help leaders and teams solve their gnarliest cross-functional challenges.
This week, Rodney and Sam reflect on what they’ve learned over the course of this eight-part miniseries—about the framework, their own Midnight Zones, and what it means to navigate complexity amidst uncertainty. They share how their thinking has evolved since launching the series, when Depthfinding is most useful (and when it’s not), and why every organization eventually has to ask: Who are we designing for?
The end of the miniseries isn’t the end of Depthfinding. Now it’s time for you to dive in.
Download the Depthfinding guide to get the template and examples of how to use it.
Want to learn more about Depthfinding? Head here: theready.com/depthfinding
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Mentioned references:
Bob Vila
The Ready's OS Canvas
"strategy pancakes": AWWTR Ep. 2
"even/overs": BNW Ep. 44
"op rhythm": BNW Ep. 118
Yaggadang by BG & Coyote Radio
00:00 Intro + Check-In: What is the warning label on the back of your box?
04:26 Depthfinding’s impact on our work
08:19 New discoveries from the miniseries
13:50 Limitations of Depthfinding
16:34 Troubleshooting consultants stuck in one zone
22:14 What’s next for Depthfinding
25:14 What’s next for the podcast
27:11 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with your colleagues
This episode's theme music is Yaggadang by BG & Coyote Radio.
Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of Coupe Studios.
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29:08
Depthfinding: From Leadership to Stewardship
In this miniseries, we’re exploring Depthfinding—an easy-to-grasp framework designed to help leaders and teams solve their gnarliest cross-functional challenges.
This week, Rodney and Sam dive into one of the most pivotal (and misunderstood) aspects of the framework: stewardship. Depthfinding is built on the idea that organizations are like oceans, not aquariums. That means leaders have to show up in an entirely new way—not as a boss, a hero, or a disciplinarian, but as someone responsible for the ongoing health of a complex system.
Embracing stewardship can be an uphill battle thanks to the ghosts of leadership past and the inner work required to show up well in complexity. But when facing down uncertainty, building the conditions for resilience and learning to steward across each Depthfinding zone offers a new way forward.
Get the PDF Rodney and Sam talk about in this episode
Download the Depthfinding guide to get the template and examples of how to use it.
Want to learn more about Depthfinding? Head here: theready.com/depthfinding
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Mentioned references:
"Intelligence vs information age"
Jack Welch
Model T assembly line efficiency gains
Henry Ford quote about hands: The Future of Management, by Gary Hamel
connection between Gantt chart and slavery
Frederick Winslow Taylor
MRI study about how power impacts your brain
Employee Owned Trust (EOT)
00:00 Intro + Check-In: What is an underrated condiment?
03:46 Stewardship is how to put Depthfinding into action
08:32 Leadership ghosts of the industrial age: Henry Ford and the org chart
15:10 Leadership ghosts of the information age: Jack Welch and cult of personality
20:11 De-centering leaders and re-centering the organization for the future
23:50 Stewardship in the Midnight Zone playbook
28:13 Leaders modeling Midnight Zone moves is critical
30:29 Stewardship in the Twilight Zone playbook
35:46 Stewardship in the Sunshine Zone playbook
38:13 Stewardship in the Sky playbook
43:40 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share this episode with your colleagues!
This episode's theme music is Yaggadang by BG & Coyote Radio.
Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of Coupe Studios.
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45:43
Depthfinding: Making Sense of This Moment
In this miniseries, we’re exploring Depthfinding—an easy-to-grasp framework designed to help leaders and teams solve their gnarliest cross-functional challenges.
This week, Rodney and Sam zoom out. Because here’s the truth: the experience the last few months in the U.S.? It’s not an exception. It’s the environment we’re working in now.
From top-down compliance crackdowns to the resurrection of five-layer approval chains, we’re watching organizations double down on control just as the world demands more adaptability. Many teams feel stuck waiting for the storm to pass—without realizing that this is the weather now.
In this episode, we unpack what’s going on, what it means to lead when volatility is the default, and how to stop standing still and get moving.
Download the Depthfinding guide to get the template and examples of how to use it.
Want to learn more about Depthfinding? Head here: theready.com/depthfinding
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Follow us on your favorite platforms for more org design nerdery:
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Mentioned references:
Mongolian-Manchurian grassland
"USAID cuts"
"former federal employees as foreign intelligence targets"
"diversity in teams leads to higher performing teams"
"permacrisis article"
Overton window
Critical Uncertainties (a Liberating Structure)
00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s a notable wildlife encounter you’ve had?
05:03 Understanding the moment we’re in
07:01 Efficiency in principle vs execution
11:31 Broad cuts that don’t acknowledge complexity
14:57 Midnight Zone churn
19:29 Big sky mandates that are a distraction from real work
28:18 Navigating the changing sky within your organization
34:11 Compounding crises are likely, plan for uncertainty
38:34 Parting thoughts
39:33 Wrap up: leave us a review and send us your questions!
This episode's theme music is Yaggadang by BG & Coyote Radio.
Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of Coupe Studios.
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41:34
Brave New Work: Making Layoffs More Human [Rebroadcast]
Rebroadcast note: With everything happening in the world right now, we're taking a quick break from our miniseries to reshare this episode about layoffs. Because sometimes large layoffs are necessary, but they shouldn't be the norm and those being let go should still be treated like humans, rather than a line on a spreadsheet. If you listened the first time around, share this episode with someone in your network who might need it (especially if they're a government employee 😬). We'll be back in two weeks with a brand new episode.
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We won’t mince words: Layoffs suck. They heap very real stress and chaos onto very real people’s lives. And as we’ve seen reported lately, big waves of layoffs are hitting several companies—and thousands of people—hard right now. This pile of not-good news sparked some questions for us, like: Why are layoffs a go-to cost-cutting lever? What pre-layoff org design decisions put employers and employees in this gnarly position? And why does every CEO letter announcing mass layoffs sound like it was written by the same robot?
In today’s episode, Aaron and Rodney, who’ve been on both sides of the layoff aisle, spend time with these queries and dig into:
The all-around messiness of the traditional layoff process
Why companies default to short-term thinking when the boom times boom
Dehumanizing layoff practices we should shelve for good
Creating clear containers and agreements for handling layoffs
How we could design a layoff moment that’s truly people-positive
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Mentioned references:
"RIFs"
ConvertKit episode: BNW Ep. 36 with Nathan Barry
"life stress inventories": Holmes and Rahe stress scale
Office Space, 1999 movie
Up in the Air, 2009 movie
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53:37
Depthfinding: The Midnight Zone - Experience, Emotions, and Reactions at Work
In this miniseries, we’re exploring Depthfinding—an easy-to-grasp framework designed to help leaders and teams solve their gnarliest cross-functional challenges.
This week, Rodney and Sam dive into the Midnight Zone—the deepest layer of organizational life, where the lived experiences, emotions, and unspoken reactions of individuals shape everything that happens above. While many organizations focus on surface-level solutions, ignoring the human realities of work leads to burnout, disengagement, and resistance to change.
Leaders who acknowledge and engage with the Midnight Zone create organizations where people feel seen, supported, and empowered to contribute fully. Understanding the emotional undercurrents of work isn’t just about empathy—it’s about unlocking real, lasting transformation.
Download the Depthfinding guide to get the template and examples of how to use it.
Want to learn more about Depthfinding? Head here: theready.com/depthfinding
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Want future of work insights and experiments you can try delivered to your inbox? Sign up here.
Follow us on your favorite platforms for more org design nerdery:
LinkedIn
Instagram
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Mentioned references:
First depthfinding episode
Conscious Leadership Group
ACT Matrix
Iceberg model
"workers deriving identify from their job"
"knowledge work is at peak inefficiency" - Jared Spataro from Microsoft at Charter's "Leading with AI" summit in Jan 2025. See his statements about 60% of a knowledge worker's time being spent on overhead
Gareth's episode: BNW Ep. 5 with Dr. Gareth Holman
This episode's theme music is Yaggadang by BG & Coyote Radio.
Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of Coupe Studios.
Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin have helped teams around the world adopt more modern ways of working and on At Work with The Ready they’re sharing the inside scoop with you, too. Whether you’re struggling with a carousel of ineffective meetings, annual strategy sessions that go nowhere, or decision-making churn that never ceases, they’ve seen it all and are here to help. In each episode, they'll break down common workplace challenges and show you the moves—both big and small—to start making real, lasting change. (Formerly “Brave New Work” with Aaron Dignan and Rodney Evans)
New Zealand