Second Nature

Dan Coe, who writes The Brand Report and spent years at Nike, joins Aaron and Dylan to break down the "primitives" he believes decide whether a young brand survives. Marketing technology keeps changing and the funnel has collapsed into a single swipe, but Dan argues that why people buy hasn't changed, and that the basics are where small brands can beat big ones.
They work through three of them: knowing your customer down to a single person and being for someone rather than everyone; showing that customer the brand is for people like them through episodic content, with examples from Huckberry, Burton, Bandit's Unsponsored Project and a cafe that gives free coffee to anyone who dances; and selling transformation instead of features.
Along the way they get into whether brands should resist growing beyond their core, what brand marketing is really for and how to measure it, what a brand and a community actually are, why Dan chose depth over dopamine for The Brand Report, and the moment Aaron realized his own YouTube titles were selling technique instead of outcome.
Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly:
Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Show Notes:
The Brand Report: https://www.thebrand.report
Dan Coe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/d-coe/
Mattie Sims Pod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJl441qcZLk
For The Culture (Book): https://bookshop.org/a/128566/9781541700963
The Brand Report - Burton: https://thebrand.report/articles/burton-five-eras
Huckberry on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Huckberryco
Yeti Presents: https://www.yeti.com/films.html
Brooklyn Coffee (IG): https://www.instagram.com/bkcoffeeshop/
Coffee Milano (IG): https://www.instagram.com/coffeemilanocafe/
Terignota on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@terignota
Backcountry (Aaron's Link!): https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/enE9bO
Bandit Unsponsored: https://banditrunning.com/pages/unsponsored-project
Tempo Journal - Tim West Interview: https://tempojournal.com/article/dripping-sweat
Michael Mazzara: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-mazzara-967a1431/
Kith: https://kith.com/
Raide Research: https://raideresearch.com/
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Primal Intelligence (Book): https://bookshop.org/a/128566/9780593715307
Rick Rubin x Angus Fletcher podcast: https://www.tetragrammaton.com/podcast/angus-fletcher
Sclar PBJ Hardtail: https://sklarbikes.com/products/pbj
Sondur Travel: https://sondurtravel.com/
Kylian Mbappe x On: https://press.on-running.com/on-enters-football-alongside-kylian-mbappe
Connect With Us:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Bro Pod is back! Dylan returns to Second Nature for a proper catch up after a summer on the road, and he and Aaron catch up on the year so far. Dylan looks back on his Hardrock experience, an incredibly booked up summer, and the slump that arrives every October. Aaron shares what seven years of consistency finally looks like: every Super Rider platform now past 100,000 followers, and no longer having to pitch himself relentlessly to get work.
From there they dig into what it takes to build a business in 2026, when anyone can copy what you do. They cover Rapha's recent turbulence, the newer brands carrying its torch, and why being for a specific group of people may be the best protection. Along the way: holding equity in a company with a delayed IPO, Hunter S. Thompson and choosing three decisions to follow through on instead of worrying about thirty, why acquisition isn't the only measure of success, an Enneagram check on both hosts, and a special BPC that includes a "first" for the pod.
Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo:
Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Show Notes:
Freetrail: https://www.freetrail.com
Super Rider: https://www.instagram.com/superridertv
YaBoyScottJurek Meme: https://www.instagram.com/p/DOA6gfxjViG/?img_index=5
Marin Bikes: https://marinbikes.com/
Rapha on Escape Collective: https://escapecollective.com/the-real-reason-rapha-became-uncool/
The Brand Report: https://thebrand.report/
Borderlands episode with Dylan: https://www.borderlands.cc/podcasts/dylan-bowman-is-still-figuring-it-out/
Andrew Ross Sorkin: https://www.andrewrosssorkin.com/
Enneagram Made Easy (Book): https://bookshop.org/a/128566/9780062510266
Enneagram Test: https://www.truity.com/test/enneagram-personality-test
Christian Rawles: https://www.christianrawles.com/
Invisible Work Newsletter: https://join.christianrawles.com/signup
Christian Rawles on Second Nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVPKsO0O8us
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
The Coffee Ride: https://thecoffeeride.com/
Gumtree Golf + Nature: https://www.gumtreegolfandnature.com/
Roll The Calls (Book): https://bookshop.org/a/128566/9798217209347
Connect With Us:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Lizzie Shilko wore the same busted ski helmet for more than 10 years, the foam coming loose from its shell, and every year she looked for a replacement worth buying and found nothing she liked. So she wrote a business plan in her notes app and built the helmet herself.
Now just over a year into Revi, she joins Second Nature to trace the path from that note to product on retail shelves: why putting a helmet on someone's head sells it better than any website copy, the customers who walked into ski shops and pitched Revi to buyers unprompted, and how sharing her story on TikTok, shot on her phone, put her in front of two major retailers who reached out by DM. Lizzie also shares what she's learned about showing your work as a founder, why she's choosing slower, more deliberate retail growth over launching more products, how Backcountry Garage fits in, and what she took away from a week at her manufacturer overseeing safety testing.
Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo:
Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Show Notes:
Lizzie Shilko: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizzieshilko/
Revi Helmets: https://revigear.com/
KORE Podcast with Lizzie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR5uP3npGP0
Backcountry Garage: https://www.backcountry.com/rc/backcountry-garage
Revi on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lizzieshilko
Revi on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/revigear/
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Gear Envie: https://www.gearenvie.com/
Built Puff Bars: https://amzn.to/4sr61b3
David Milkshakes: https://amzn.to/3TEBTfl
Connect With Us:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Allie Melnick, co-founder of Climatic, joins Second Nature to talk about building an entirely new health category: proactive lung health. A ten-year veteran of Harry's (now Mammoth Brands), Melnick explains why breathing, not legs, not sleep, not gut health, might be the next frontier in everyday performance, and what it actually takes to convince people a problem exists before you can sell them the solution.
She and Aaron dig into Climatic's L-MAX inhaler, the sheep-lung testing and Mount Sinai clinical research behind it, and the surprising communities who found the product before the company expected them to. The conversation also covers the discipline it took to stay patient through a sold-out, scarcity-driven launch, and closes with an unplanned detour into the hidden world of startup advising: how operators with full-time jobs can build equity and expertise on the side, and why a sharp, one-sentence pitch beats being a Swiss Army knife.
Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo:
Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Show Notes:
Allie Melnick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allie-melnick-4269034/
Climatic: https://www.climatichealth.com/
Harry's: https://www.harrys.com/
Seed: https://seed.com/
Mount Sinai Study: https://insider.fitt.co/press-release/mount-sinai-medical-center-researcher-co-authors-peer-reviewed-study-on-inhaled-formulations-designed-to-strengthen-the-lungs-natural-defenses/
Performance Advisory Board: https://insider.fitt.co/press-release/climatic-launches-performance-advisory-board-to-advance-daily-lung-health-as-the-next-frontier-in-wellness/
Mentorpass: https://www.mentorpass.co/
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Loonen Water: https://loonen.com/
Defense Soap: https://amzn.to/47qT1Z4
Find Us:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

John Schade first discovered Dry Brew:a patented, waterless, ready-to-eat cup of coffee, while searching for something better than a mediocre coffee gummy he'd seen on Shark Tank. He reached out to the original founders immediately. It took over five years, and a random cold email in 2024, before he finally got the chance to help build it.
In this conversation, recorded after meeting at Outdoor Retailer through Popfly's Wild Reach program, John walks through Dry Brew's go-to-market journey, starting in aviation with pilots who instantly understood the product, then following that same signal into trade shows, outdoor specialty retail, and eventually Target. He also gets into the patent that protects the entire category, why packaging has to do all the talking on a retail shelf, and the wild, unexpected use cases customers keep finding - including a police officer who uses it for 2am hostage negotiation call-outs.
BONUS: The team at Dry Brew has shared a 20% discount link for Second Nature listeners. You can use this link (or type in SecondNature20 at checkout) for your order: https://drybrew.com/discount/SecondNature20
Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo:
Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Show Notes:
Dry Brew: https://drybrew.com/
John Schade: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnschade/
Dry Brew on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drybrew
Dry Brew on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drybrew
Final Boss Sour: https://finalbosssour.com/
Neurogum: https://neurogum.com/
Nathan's Gum: https://nathanandsons.com/
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Veloci: https://velocirunning.com/
Bookshop.org (Second Nature Books!): https://bookshop.org/shop/secondnature
Find Us:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia