PodcastsBusinessSecond Nature

Second Nature

Dylan Bowman & Aaron Lutze
Second Nature
Latest episode

160 episodes

  • Second Nature

    Behind The Brand: Athletic Brewing

    05/06/2026 | 1h 5 mins.
    Bill Shufelt was a hedge fund analyst who didn't drink, couldn't find a non-alcoholic beer worth ordering, and one night his wife spun him around on a sidewalk and told him to do something about it. Eight years later, Athletic Brewing has 300 employees, four breweries, over a million barrels of capacity, and has almost single-handedly turned non-alcoholic beer from a stigmatized afterthought into 20% of all beer at Whole Foods.
    In this conversation, Bill walks through the full journey: the two years of research before he quit his job, the valley of darkness where no brewery, distributor, or investor would take his calls, finding his co-founder John Walker through a brewing forum post (with the words "non-alcoholic" deliberately removed), and the grassroots field marketing strategy that built the brand one race, one taproom, and one six-pack at a time. He also gets into the competitive explosion that followed, why he views 200 brands entering his category as a positive, and what it's like to redefine success once the business reaches cruising altitude.
    If you've ever looked at a category and thought "why hasn't anyone fixed this yet", this is the episode that shows you what happens when someone actually does.
    Show Notes:
    Popfly For Brands
    Popfly For Creators
    Bill Shufelt on LinkedIn
    Athletic Brewing
    John Walker on LinkedIn
    1000 True Fans (Article)
    Do Things That Don't Scale (Article)
    Two For The Trails
    What It Takes (Book)
    The Obstacle Is The Way (Book)
    BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
    Dirt - Ireland
    Gramicci
    Hopa Hopa Climbing Wall
    Kawa
    Raide Research - LF 5L Vest
    The Modern Substitute
    Kids Ride Shotgun
    Connect With Us:
    Join us on LinkedIn
    Meet us on Slack
    Follow us on Instagram
    Subscribe to our Newsletter
    Subscribe to our YouTube Channel
  • Second Nature

    What Happens When You Actually Ask For Help

    29/05/2026 | 1h 4 mins.
    Morgan Tuohy is seven days into the launch of Dera, a trail running belt brand built around a BOA-style dial closure that nobody's tried before in the category. He sold out of two sizes in under eight hours, shipped hundreds of belts from his living room until 3 AM, and had $500 left in his bank account two days before launch. He's 27 years old.
    In this conversation, Morgan walks through the full founder journey — from stitching prototypes in his attic with fabric from old running shoes, to convincing one of Osprey's largest factories to take a chance on him, to the moment Tim Tollefson told him he wasn't allowed to NOT do this. He also talks openly about his first failed brand, why he set three rules for himself this time around ("I know nothing, everyone else knows everything, and they all want to help"), and how seven members of the Second Nature Slack channel played a direct role in getting Dera off the ground.
    This is a brand launch captured in real time — and a reminder that sometimes the best businesses start with a sewing machine in an attic and the willingness to ask for help.
    Show Notes:
    Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
    Popfly for Athletes/Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
    Morgan Tuohy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/morgan-tuohy/
    Dera: https://rundera.com/
    Tim Tollefson: https://www.instagram.com/timtollefson/
    Our IP Attorney, Ian Gates: https://krdglaw.com/staff/ian-gates/
    Kitworks: http://www.kitworks.com
    Second Nature Slack Channel: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
    Cade Michael: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cade-michael-mba-914411152/
    Clara Froeschner: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clarafroeschner/
    Tim Nooney: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-nooney-0a3bbaa6/
    Courier Socks: https://couriersocks.com/
    Claude: https://www.claude.ai
    Mammoth Trailfest: https://www.mammothtrailfest.com/
    BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
    Goodles: https://www.goodles.com/
    Dexa Scan: https://dexascan.com/
    Kiprun - Kipsummit Max: https://www.kiprun.com/en-US/product/kipsummit-max-men-s-max-cushion-trail-running-shoes_362206--c153c385m9001281
    Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
    Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
    Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
    Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
    Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia
  • Second Nature

    You Can Just Build Things Now

    22/05/2026 | 1h 6 mins.
    Steve Holmberg is one of our favorite recurring guests, and this time, he showed up with something nobody expected. Over the holidays, Steve went from zero coding experience to a fully functional AI-powered app called Field Check, built using the vibe coding platform Lovable. The app connects retail store associates directly to brand product and marketing teams through AI-driven chats that go deeper than any survey can — and he built the whole thing in about a month.
    In this conversation, Steve walks through exactly how he did it, what he wishes he'd known before starting, and why AI is "a tool masquerading as a solution." He also deployed Field Check live on the Second Nature Slack channel to surface what the audience actually wants — and the results are fascinating.
    Plus: a halftime check-in on Second Nature's 2026 predictions, what happened at Sea Otter with Chinese bike brands, why Adidas is having a moment, and the 32-inch wheel debate that nobody asked for.
    Show Notes:
    Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
    Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
    Steve Holmberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenholmberg/
    Insight Accelerator: https://insight-accelerator.com/
    Lovable: https://lovable.dev/
    Field Check: https://fieldcheck.app/
    Supabase: https://supabase.com/
    Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com/
    Github: https://www.github.com
    2026 Predictions Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0G3OpDVnyA
    Steve's Prediction Post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/stephenholmberg_2026-sport-and-outdoor-industry-trends-activity-7414293417557626880-AXy7
    Trailcon: https://www.trailconference.com
    BPC - Brand, Product, Content
    Jason Fried - David Senra Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdDCtMA1gSw
    Adventure Bucket List: https://reachinternationaloutfitters.com/collections/state-bucket-lists
    Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
    Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
    Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
    Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
    Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia
  • Second Nature

    What 5.5 Million Followers Taught Her About Brand Social

    15/05/2026 | 1h 8 mins.
    Maren Hamilton ran global social at The North Face — building and executing a strategy for 5.5 million followers, integrating athletes and creators, and navigating every platform shift from the follow graph to the discovery graph. Then she left to help build Popfly, the creator platform built specifically for the outdoor industry. In this conversation, Maren shares the playbook she developed at TNF for running brand social at scale, including how to say no to the hundreds of internal requests that flood every social team, why the outdoor buying journey is fundamentally different from fashion and beauty, and what brands still get wrong about TikTok, Threads, and Facebook.
    Plus: Why Head of Social to CMO is now a real career path, what makes a creator pitch actually land with a brand, and the Adidas sub-two-hour marathon moment that might be the greatest brand activation of the decade.
    Second Nature is supported by Popfly. If you want to support our podcast - and discover a platform that we believe is one of the best tools for connecting brands and creators, follow these links:
    Popfly for Creators/Athletes: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
    Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
    Show Notes: 
    Maren Hamilton: https://www.marenhamilton.com/
    Popfly: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
    TNF Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thenorthface
    DBo on X: https://x.com/dylanbo
    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com
    Gnara on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@gnara_apparel?lang=en
    Taylor Hoekstra: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylorhoekstra/
    Popfly Storefront: https://app.popfly.com/@superridertv/storefront
    Alpaka: https://www.alpaka.com
    Camp Chef: https://www.campchef.com
    Backcountry: https://www.backcountry.com
    BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
    Halfdays x HOKA: https://www.halfdays.com/pages/hoka-x-halfdays
    Keen x 18 East: https://www.keenfootwear.com/collections/keen-x-eighteen-east
    Gnarly Nutrition x DBo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPtESorSIso
    Supercommunicators (Book): https://amzn.to/3RcJ7W6
    Supercommunicators (Podcast Episode): https://open.spotify.com/episode/3jqbbLEHbZyEJ2kMqNskkz
    Adidas Pro Evo 3: https://www.adidas.com/us/adizero-adios-pro-evo-3-shoes/KH7678.html
    Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
    Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
    Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
    Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
    Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia
  • Second Nature

    What Outdoor Brands Get Wrong About Storytelling

    08/05/2026 | 1h 5 mins.
    Matt Trappe is a photographer, filmmaker, creative strategist, and the voice behind the Matter of Brand newsletter: one of the most consistently sharp reads on brand building in the outdoor space. In this conversation, Matt and Aaron dig into why leading with innovation and tech has become table stakes rather than a differentiator, the three elements that make a brand story actually stick, and why the most powerful thing a brand can do right now is invest in longer attention channels rather than chasing short-form reach.
    Show Notes:
    Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg
    Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss
    Matt Trappe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-trappe/
    Auteur Sportif: https://auteursportif.com/
    Matter Of Brand: https://amatterofbrand.substack.com/
    Matt Trappe on Second Nature (2024): https://youtu.be/Y-5n57sX5S4
    MOB - YouTube Strategies: https://amatterofbrand.substack.com/p/new-youtube-strategies-for-athletes
    NASA Artemis Recap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfRqrrBbT-Y
    Hyperlyte - The Kid (Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZmeB4qub_U
    Kaironic: https://auteursportif.com/products/kaironic-issue-002
    Smith Optics: https://smithoptics.pxf.io/PzKObY
    WSJ - Alternatively Influential: https://www.wsj.com/cmo-today/forget-influencers-welcome-to-the-world-of-the-alternatively-influential-e058e639
    Second Nature Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
    Skratch: https://www.skratch.com
    Popfly: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
    Skratch x Auteur Sportif: https://www.skratchlabs.com/pages/what-remains
    Tantrums: https://tantrums.run/
    BPC - Brand, Product, Content
    Are.na: https://www.are.na/
    Smith ODS5: https://smithoptics.pxf.io/vDyPVe
    Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
    Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
    Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
    Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
    Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia
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About Second Nature
The business of outdoor hosted by Aaron Lutze & Dylan Bowman
Podcast website

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