Second Nature

John Schade first discovered Dry Brew:a patented, waterless, ready-to-eat cup of coffee, while searching for something better than a mediocre coffee gummy he'd seen on Shark Tank. He reached out to the original founders immediately. It took over five years, and a random cold email in 2024, before he finally got the chance to help build it.
In this conversation, recorded after meeting at Outdoor Retailer through Popfly's Wild Reach program, John walks through Dry Brew's go-to-market journey, starting in aviation with pilots who instantly understood the product, then following that same signal into trade shows, outdoor specialty retail, and eventually Target. He also gets into the patent that protects the entire category, why packaging has to do all the talking on a retail shelf, and the wild, unexpected use cases customers keep finding - including a police officer who uses it for 2am hostage negotiation call-outs.
BONUS: The team at Dry Brew has shared a 20% discount link for Second Nature listeners. You can use this link (or type in SecondNature20 at checkout) for your order: https://drybrew.com/discount/SecondNature20
Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo:
Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Show Notes:
Dry Brew: https://drybrew.com/
John Schade: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnschade/
Dry Brew on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drybrew
Dry Brew on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drybrew
Final Boss Sour: https://finalbosssour.com/
Neurogum: https://neurogum.com/
Nathan's Gum: https://nathanandsons.com/
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Veloci: https://velocirunning.com/
Bookshop.org (Second Nature Books!): https://bookshop.org/shop/secondnature
Find Us:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Hamish and Hannah Acland, co-founders of Mons Royale, join Second Nature to tell the story of building a global merino wool brand from Wanaka, New Zealand. The brand started with an email titled "Anatomy of an Idea" that brought the two of them together. They talk through the founding insight that base layers were the one piece of ski gear nobody had bothered to make exciting, and how they set out to build a global brand from day one rather than a New Zealand one, despite a disastrous first trade show and years of razor-thin margins as distributors took their cut.
Hamish and Hannah are candid about the harder second chapter of the business: losing their creative conviction under pressure from wholesalers, the challenge of scaling a founder-led vision into a real team, and the ongoing tension between growth and funding.
They also get into how "action sports can better people and planet" became the brand's operating mission over the language of sustainability, why Mons Royale built an athlete program when visibility wasn't even possible for a base-layer brand, and what it's taught them about resilience, team-building, and staying global-minded from a town of a few thousand people at the bottom of the world.
Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo:
Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Show Notes:
Mons Royale: https://monsroyale.com/
Hamish Acland: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hamishacland/
Hannah Acland: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-acland/
ISPO: https://www.ispo.com/
Mattie Sims on Second Nature: https://youtu.be/tJl441qcZLk
Robin Goomes: https://www.youtube.com/@robin_riding_hood
Future Ground Event: https://monsroyale.com/blogs/news/future-ground-full-video
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Keen Shoes: https://www.keenfootwear.com/
Belonging (Book): https://bookshop.org/a/128566/9781529410310
Insta360 X6: https://store.insta360.com/consumer?utm_term=SUPERRIDER
Find Us:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Angie Burnett has spent over a decade in affiliate marketing — starting with coupon sites at 1-800 Contacts, moving through fashion e-commerce, and now leading influencer and affiliate partnerships at Backcountry, a 30-year-old brand she's helped modernize for the creator economy. Recorded live at Outdoor Retailer, this conversation goes deep on what most people get wrong about affiliate marketing and what the best creators and brands are doing differently right now.
Angie breaks down why "owning your audience" matters more than ever and how she evaluates creators beyond follower counts (including a surprising use of Reddit and Meta's Creator tools). She also walks through what it actually takes to build an affiliate program from scratch, why newsletters are a much harder affiliate channel than people assume, and how YouTube's new shopping integration is changing the game for creators.
Second Nature Is Supported By:
Popfly (For Brands): https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly (For Creators/Athletes): https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Show Notes:
Angie Burnett: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angieburnett/
Backcountry: https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/enE9bO
Popfly: https://www.popfly.com
Wasatch Adventure Dress: https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/ZVzG0W
Avantlink: https://www.avantlink.com
Impact: https://www.impact.com
Clique Agency: https://cliqueaffiliate.com/
MarTec Record (Slack): https://martechrecord.com/industry-surveys-reports-and-data/
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Koala Eco Veggie Wash: https://www.koalaeco.com/
DryBrew: https://drybrew.com/
Fun Stuff:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

YJ Tung is building Foresthill Basecamp — a performance lodge with ten modular cabins at mile 62 of the Western States Trail, featuring saunas, cold plunges, and everything an endurance athlete could want after a long day on the trail. The idea started after a three-hour delirious drive home from his first ultra, and it's now becoming real through a combination of validation, relationship-building, and no small amount of serendipity.
In this conversation, YJ walks through how he and his business partner validated the concept with just $15-20 a day in Meta ads before building anything, how a chance connection in the Second Nature Slack turned into real partnership support, and what it's been like to work his first-ever trade show booth at TrailCon. He also gets candid about losing his father, managing the imposter syndrome that comes with pursuing something this ambitious, and why he's convinced he's exactly the right person to bring this particular idea to life.
Second Nature is proudly supported by:
Halo: https://poweredbyhalo.com/
Popfly (for brands): https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly (for creators): https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Show Notes:
YJ Tung: https://www.linkedin.com/in/youngjohntung/
Miwok 100k: https://miwok100k.com/
Isaac French: https://www.isaacjfrench.com/
Unreasonable Hospitality (Book): https://amzn.to/3UZex4c
Sally McRae - Western States Film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHoXgYPvj6o
East Peak: https://www.runeastpeak.com/
SF Run Co: https://store.sfrunco.com/
TrailCon: https://trailconference.com/
Foresthill Basecamp on IndieGogo: https://www.indiegogo.com/en/projects/foresthill_basecamp/fhbc
Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy: https://amzn.to/4y3e27R
Second Nature Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Autocamp: https://autocamp.com/
Ramble podcast episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahFqLCAyEvY
Snowpeak: https://www.snowpeak.com/
mammoth trailfest: https://www.mammothtrailfest.com/
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Trail Work (Book): https://amzn.to/4d1VJrp
Without A Doubt - Braydon Bringhurst: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIWGC_qnBO4
Find Us:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Hilary Fenet just pulled off one of the most talked-about brand activations at UTMB — a full hotel takeover in Chamonix for Rabbit, complete with a clubhouse for the week, community breakfasts, and an espresso cart in the parking lot. But the company behind it, Halo, started with a much smaller and much less glamorous moment: Hilary booking a hotel on the wrong side of a mountain before a race in the Italian Dolomites.
In this conversation, Hilary walks through how a bad hotel booking turned into a genuine business insight — brands were building incredible experiences for their sponsored athletes, but ignoring the people actually buying their gear. She breaks down how Halo builds these activations from the ground up, the data that makes the case for in-person experience over pure digital marketing, and what it actually takes to scale something this bespoke to multiple events happening around the world at once.
Second Nature is proudly supported by Halo and Popfly:
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Show Notes:
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Hilary Fenet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilary-fenet-b2b2358/
Rabbit: https://www.runinrabbit.com/
Monica DeVreese: https://www.linkedin.com/in/monid/
Dolomite Skyrace: https://www.dolomitemountains.com/en/resources/dolomites-tips/sky-race-in-the-dolomites
Aravaipa: https://www.aravaiparunning.com/
Citadel Investment Group: https://www.citadel.com/
SAFE Note: https://carta.com/learn/startups/fundraising/convertible-securities/safes/
Athletic Brewing on Second Nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUZyMp1XsPs
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Rabbit: https://www.runinrabbit.com/
Theo of Golden (Book): https://amzn.to/4xliEF3
Climatic: https://www.climatichealth.com/
War of Art (Book): https://amzn.to/4h2vkuE
Shoe Dog (Book): https://amzn.to/4A5RSmL
Fun Stuff:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia