Second Nature

Angie Burnett has spent over a decade in affiliate marketing — starting with coupon sites at 1-800 Contacts, moving through fashion e-commerce, and now leading influencer and affiliate partnerships at Backcountry, a 30-year-old brand she's helped modernize for the creator economy. Recorded live at Outdoor Retailer, this conversation goes deep on what most people get wrong about affiliate marketing and what the best creators and brands are doing differently right now.
Angie breaks down why "owning your audience" matters more than ever and how she evaluates creators beyond follower counts (including a surprising use of Reddit and Meta's Creator tools). She also walks through what it actually takes to build an affiliate program from scratch, why newsletters are a much harder affiliate channel than people assume, and how YouTube's new shopping integration is changing the game for creators.
Second Nature Is Supported By:
Popfly (For Brands): https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly (For Creators/Athletes): https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Show Notes:
Angie Burnett: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angieburnett/
Backcountry: https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/enE9bO
Popfly: https://www.popfly.com
Wasatch Adventure Dress: https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/ZVzG0W
Avantlink: https://www.avantlink.com
Impact: https://www.impact.com
Clique Agency: https://cliqueaffiliate.com/
MarTec Record (Slack): https://martechrecord.com/industry-surveys-reports-and-data/
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Koala Eco Veggie Wash: https://www.koalaeco.com/
DryBrew: https://drybrew.com/
Fun Stuff:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

YJ Tung is building Foresthill Basecamp — a performance lodge with ten modular cabins at mile 62 of the Western States Trail, featuring saunas, cold plunges, and everything an endurance athlete could want after a long day on the trail. The idea started after a three-hour delirious drive home from his first ultra, and it's now becoming real through a combination of validation, relationship-building, and no small amount of serendipity.
In this conversation, YJ walks through how he and his business partner validated the concept with just $15-20 a day in Meta ads before building anything, how a chance connection in the Second Nature Slack turned into real partnership support, and what it's been like to work his first-ever trade show booth at TrailCon. He also gets candid about losing his father, managing the imposter syndrome that comes with pursuing something this ambitious, and why he's convinced he's exactly the right person to bring this particular idea to life.
Second Nature is proudly supported by:
Halo: https://poweredbyhalo.com/
Popfly (for brands): https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly (for creators): https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Show Notes:
YJ Tung: https://www.linkedin.com/in/youngjohntung/
Miwok 100k: https://miwok100k.com/
Isaac French: https://www.isaacjfrench.com/
Unreasonable Hospitality (Book): https://amzn.to/3UZex4c
Sally McRae - Western States Film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHoXgYPvj6o
East Peak: https://www.runeastpeak.com/
SF Run Co: https://store.sfrunco.com/
TrailCon: https://trailconference.com/
Foresthill Basecamp on IndieGogo: https://www.indiegogo.com/en/projects/foresthill_basecamp/fhbc
Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy: https://amzn.to/4y3e27R
Second Nature Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Autocamp: https://autocamp.com/
Ramble podcast episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahFqLCAyEvY
Snowpeak: https://www.snowpeak.com/
mammoth trailfest: https://www.mammothtrailfest.com/
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Trail Work (Book): https://amzn.to/4d1VJrp
Without A Doubt - Braydon Bringhurst: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIWGC_qnBO4
Find Us:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Hilary Fenet just pulled off one of the most talked-about brand activations at UTMB — a full hotel takeover in Chamonix for Rabbit, complete with a clubhouse for the week, community breakfasts, and an espresso cart in the parking lot. But the company behind it, Halo, started with a much smaller and much less glamorous moment: Hilary booking a hotel on the wrong side of a mountain before a race in the Italian Dolomites.
In this conversation, Hilary walks through how a bad hotel booking turned into a genuine business insight — brands were building incredible experiences for their sponsored athletes, but ignoring the people actually buying their gear. She breaks down how Halo builds these activations from the ground up, the data that makes the case for in-person experience over pure digital marketing, and what it actually takes to scale something this bespoke to multiple events happening around the world at once.
Second Nature is proudly supported by Halo and Popfly:
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Show Notes:
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Hilary Fenet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilary-fenet-b2b2358/
Rabbit: https://www.runinrabbit.com/
Monica DeVreese: https://www.linkedin.com/in/monid/
Dolomite Skyrace: https://www.dolomitemountains.com/en/resources/dolomites-tips/sky-race-in-the-dolomites
Aravaipa: https://www.aravaiparunning.com/
Citadel Investment Group: https://www.citadel.com/
SAFE Note: https://carta.com/learn/startups/fundraising/convertible-securities/safes/
Athletic Brewing on Second Nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUZyMp1XsPs
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Rabbit: https://www.runinrabbit.com/
Theo of Golden (Book): https://amzn.to/4xliEF3
Climatic: https://www.climatichealth.com/
War of Art (Book): https://amzn.to/4h2vkuE
Shoe Dog (Book): https://amzn.to/4A5RSmL
Fun Stuff:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Taylor Hoekstra spent years selling products through an unlikely channel — farmer YouTubers — years before anyone called it the "creator economy." That experience taught him something most people in the outdoor industry hadn't figured out yet, and it planted the seed for Popfly.
Before writing a line of code, Taylor spent two years and roughly 500 conversations validating the idea, testing a simple question: would people actually pay for this? In this conversation, recorded live at Outdoor Retailer, Taylor walks through the classic cold-start problem every founder building a two-sided marketplace has to solve — get supply first, use supply to pull in demand, then reinvest in supply relentlessly. He also gets honest about the early years trying to convince outdoor brands that working with creators was worth their marketing budget, long before it was an easy sell.
Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo:
Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands
Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators
Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com
Show Notes:
Taylor Hoekstra: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylorhoekstra/
Popfly: https://www.popfly.com
Camp Chef: https://www.campchef.com/
Cold Start Problem: https://amzn.to/4qTtHEb
BPC - Brand, Product, Content:
Outdoor Retailer: https://outdoorretailer.com/
Amazfit T-Rex 3 Pro: https://us.amazfit.com/
Shackelton's Voyage: https://amzn.to/4qRwmOB
57 Hours: https://57hours.com/
Fun Stuff:
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media
Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media
Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Today, we're sharing something a little different. My longtime friend Rebecca Rusch invited me onto her podcast, What's The Rusch, to talk about navigating transitions: the ones we choose, and the ones that choose us.
Rebecca and I have known each other for over 20 years, since my days as her athlete manager at Red Bull, and this conversation covers a lot of ground: my own path from Red Bull into building Super Rider and Second Nature, the behind-the-scenes story of helping athletes see the light, and some honest reflections on loss, reinvention, and figuring out what comes next.
This isn't a regular Second Nature episode, but it felt too good not to share. Enjoy the conversation, and if you like what you hear, go check out the rest of What's The Rusch right here: https://www.rebeccarusch.com/whatstherusch