The SME Stream

A fun, self-reflective one. Scott and Mike break down the three archetypes of business owner — Visionary, Craftsman and Hustler — and how understanding your own type changes who you should hire and how you should lead.
You'll learn:
-The three main owner types and their classic strengths/weaknesses
-A simple test to identify your own type
-Why you should hire for the tasks you don't enjoy, not just your weaknesses on paper;
-The Platinum Rule — treat people how they want to be treated, not how you do;
-and why calling your team "family" is a bigger promise than most leaders realise.
Beer: Punk Heads Hammer Head West Coast Pilsner (6%) & Richard Cranium Hazy IPA (6.4%)
Pie: Gold Crust Pies — Pepper Steak with Mushroom Sauce

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What makes a mediation effective, and how do you know when to fight, negotiate, or settle?
In this episode of HR Unlocked, Lisa Oakley sits down with Emma Butcher and Angela Evans, partners at BE Employment Law, for a practical conversation about employment law, mediation, negotiation, and resolving workplace disputes.
Emma and Angela describe themselves as self-confessed law nerds, and their approach combines technical legal expertise with a strong focus on fairness, commercial judgement, and the human dynamics behind every employment relationship.
The conversation explores what good mediation preparation actually looks like, why chronology and facts matter more than a scripted opening statement, how employers can assess legal and commercial risk, and why understanding the person on the other side can completely change the strategy.
They also discuss why mediation isn't always about settling on the day. Sometimes the value lies in allowing both sides to be heard, testing positions, managing expectations, and creating the conditions for settlement later.
From private mediation and pre-mediation negotiation to AI-generated claims, settlement strategy, virtual mediation, and the concept of "unjustified disappointment", this episode offers a candid and highly practical look at what really happens behind the scenes of employment disputes.
What You'll Learn
Why employment law requires both technical expertise and human judgement

How fairness can remain part of the strategy even during difficult disputes

When legal advice may be different from what a client wants to hear

Why second opinions and competing advice can complicate employment disputes

How AI is influencing employee claims, expectations, and negotiation positions

Why risk analysis should include the person on the other side, not just the legal merits

How to decide whether to fight, negotiate, or settle

Why some clients need the mediation process before they're ready to settle

How to prepare effectively for mediation

Why chronology and documentation matter more than a scripted statement

How to use different personalities and roles effectively in the mediation room

Why managing expectations is more useful than trying to prove the other party wrong

How the mediator can become an important part of the negotiation strategy

Why pre-mediation offers need to be handled carefully

When private mediation may be worth the additional cost

Why mediation can still be valuable even when no settlement is reached on the day

How humour, authenticity, and de-escalation can help move a dispute towards resolution

The advantages and limitations of virtual mediation

Key Takeaways
Employment law is technical, but employment disputes are always human.
Fairness and commercial judgement can sit alongside strong legal advocacy.
Being legally right does not automatically mean litigation is the best business decision.
The most valuable legal advice often comes through risk and cost analysis, not simply explaining what the law says.
Understanding the employee's circumstances, motivations, and likely response is an important part of dispute strategy.
AI can reinforce people's existing positions and make disputes more entrenched before mediation even begins.
Good mediation preparation starts with knowing the facts, chronology, and supporting documents inside and out.
Don't overload a mediation with every possible argument. Focus on the points most likely to land.
The employer's own voice can sometimes have more impact than lengthy legal submissions.
Mediation is not always about reaching settlement immediately. Sometimes the process needs time to do its work.
Any offer made before mediation may become the starting point for future negotiation.
An unmeritorious claim can still cost significant time and money, so commercial strategy matters.
Honesty with your lawyer or HR adviser is essential. Hidden facts usually surface eventually.
Authenticity, humour, and de-escalation can materially change the tone of a mediation.
Virtual mediation can be highly effective, particularly when speed and accessibility matter.
About Emma Butcher & Angela Evans
Emma Butcher and Angela Evans are partners at BE Employment Law, a specialist employment law firm they founded together in 2021 after working alongside each other for more than a decade.
Their practice is built around fairness, integrity, technical expertise, and commercially pragmatic advice.
Emma and Angela advise employers on employment law, workplace disputes, mediation, negotiation, restructuring, and complex employee relations matters.
Together, they bring a combination of deep legal knowledge and practical judgement, helping clients navigate difficult situations while balancing legal risk, business outcomes, and the human realities involved.
Why This Episode Matters
Workplace disputes are rarely as simple as right versus wrong.
Even when the legal position appears strong, leaders and HR professionals still need to consider cost, timing, relationships, organisational culture, precedent, and the likelihood of settlement.
This episode provides practical insight into how experienced employment lawyers think through those competing considerations.
Whether you're an HR professional preparing for your first mediation, a business owner dealing with a grievance, or a leader responsible for managing complex people issues, Emma and Angela offer practical guidance on preparing well, managing expectations, and making better decisions when the stakes are high.
Resources & Links
BE Employment Law: https://belaw.co.nz/
Connect with Emma Butcher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-butcher-325b9037/
Connect with Angela Evans on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angela-evans-a4178636/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our red meat sector appears to be sitting pretty amid a turbulent global market.
The sector's gathering in Wellington today for a conference focusing on resilience to market shocks, export demand, and geopolitics in supply chains.
Exports continue to surge, with combined receipts forecast around $12.6 billion across 2026 and 27.
Special Agricultural Trade Envoy Nathan Guy told Mike Hosking it's a success story given exports are still flowing while two wars rage.
He says the UK, China, US, and Europe markets are all performing well.
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A former Finance Minister's hailing today as extremely important as Treasury opens the Government's books.
This afternoon's Pre-Election Economic and Fiscal Update will show the levels of Crown debt, revenue, and expenditure.
Budget 2026 predicted a return to operating surplus in the 2028/29 financial year – a year earlier than had been signalled.
Steven Joyce told Mike Hosking things could change quickly, but it's a helpful snapshot.
He says it's the best anchor, that shows where things are at, to help parties explain how they'll pay for their election promises.
Joyce is warning to 'proceed with caution' though – saying it'll be better than people think, but there are dangers with that too.
He acknowledges it may be a vote of confidence in the Government's short-term economic management, but the big issue still remains as to how to drive debt down.
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Built around a Richard Branson quote — employees first, customers second — this episode is a deep dive into how to identify, keep, and lead A-grade talent, even in a tight labour market.
You'll learn:
-What actually defines an "A-grader" (and why they'll leave a B-grade environment no matter the market);
-The annual "Keep Test" — would you fight to keep this person, or feel relief if they left?;
-The Goal-Role-Remind leadership framework for keeping any team aligned and engaged;
-What motivates people beyond pay (autonomy, acknowledgement, purpose); and why "catch it quick, catch it small" applies just as much to praise as to problems.
Beer: Behemoth Hophemoth Triple Hazy IPA (10%) & Urbanaught Altamira Bright Double IPA (8%)
Pie: Hangi pies from Blue Rose Café, Sandringham (pork belly, pumpkin/kūmara & more)

Liked this one? Make sure you catch the next episode - hit subscribe and check us out here:
YouTube
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Want an in-person 6 day business program that gives you a tried and tested playbook to grow? Check out: Business Growth School
Want better content? Check out: Blacklime
The company that uncomplicates business growth. Check out: Point 16
Get to know us! Mike Burke & Scott Douglas
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.