The SME Stream

Mike and Scott start talking about technology but end up spending most of their time talking about AI! They walk through four levels of using AI, why obedient AI can slow a team down when nobody applies judgment, and a listener Q&A on what business leaders leave too late.

Drinking beer from: Parrotdog - Italian Pilsner (5.3%)
Eating a pie from: Wen and Yen - Malaysian Chicken Curry

You'll learn:
-A simple rule for when to use a tool and when to use a person;
-Four levels of using AI, from basic prompting through projects to agents;
-The important gap between AI slop and useful output, and why you should avoid passing unchecked AI work on to your team;
-What do business leaders leave too late? Calling out bad behaviour and switching from thrive to survive mode;
-and why judgment is the human edge in an AI era.

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Our education system can be a target of negative energy at times, so it’s important to look out for the things we are doing right.
So, in Leaders Getting Coffee episode 74, we sought out Michelle Hazeleger – Mollard, the person heading up schools robotics charity, Kiwibots.
The NZ Robotics Charitable Trust, Kiwibots, is NZ’s largest STEM – Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics – education programme. It currently runs in over 300 schools and there are over 200 competition teams participating in Kiwibots events. Michelle has been the National Manager for just over 6 years, but she has been involved in Kiwibots since first volunteering in 2012.
Michelle’s story starts in the deep south of New Zealand where she attended 7 different schools and developed a passion for music and drama. She wanted to be a pilot, but when her grades weren’t good enough for the Air Force, a careers advisor recommended teaching, and she has been involved in the education sector ever since.
She worked her way through university working in Chinese restaurants and pizza shops and she thinks everyone should spend some time in hospitality to understand the perspective of those trying to serve us. And she taught music and played in bands to make ends meet.
Her first five hours in a classroom did not go well, but it didn’t deter her.
During the Leaders Getting Coffee podcast, Michelle talks to Bruce Cotterill about her teaching experiences in New Zealand, Japan and India, before settling down to an in-depth and passionate discussion about how Kiwi kids are participating in robotics competitions and beating the rest of the world in the process.
As artificial intelligence continues to fuel massive changes in the workplace, it’s valuable to know that our kids have the option to start participating in robotics from the age of eight.
In this conversation there is an eye to the future with plenty of insights for parents, as well as some great advice for kids who might want to get out there and give it a go.
Michelle Hazeleger-Mollard is an energetic and passionate high achiever and you get the sense that Kiwibots was made for someone like her.
Leaders Getting Coffee – – Episode 74 with Bruce Cotterill and Operations Manager at Kiwibots, Michelle Hazeleger-Mollard
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What does it take to grow New Zealand businesses internationally without losing sight of the people, systems and leadership needed to make that growth sustainable?
In this episode of HR Unlocked, Lisa Oakley sits down with Phoebe Chandler, Chief People Officer at New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (NZTE), to explore international growth, leadership, productivity, organisational design, simplification, AI, employee relations, and the future of HR.
Phoebe brings an international perspective to the conversation after spending 10 years offshore before returning to New Zealand. She shares why her time working with New Zealand businesses has made her increasingly optimistic about the country’s ability to compete globally, particularly when it comes to resilience, ingenuity, relationships and resourcefulness.
But scaling internationally requires more than a great product. Phoebe describes international growth as a people transformation story. As businesses grow, founders and leaders need to move from being the person who solves every problem to becoming the architect of the organisation around them.
Leadership capability, learning agility, curiosity and adaptability therefore need to be built into how organisations hire, make decisions, develop people and design work.
Simplification is another major theme. Phoebe argues that organisations experiencing sustained change naturally accumulate processes, controls and ways of working. The challenge is knowing what to stop, consolidate or remove so people have the capacity to focus on what matters most.
The conversation also explores productivity and work intensity. As AI removes more routine work, there is a risk that the work left behind becomes increasingly demanding. Phoebe discusses the importance of designing resilience into the organisation itself rather than placing the responsibility entirely on individuals.
That leads to one of the central leadership ideas in the episode: people may not always be able to have certainty, but leaders can still provide clarity.
Lisa and Phoebe then turn to the future of HR and employee relations. They question whether traditional approaches to investigations, restructuring, consultation and conflict resolution are keeping pace with rapidly changing workplaces.
Rather than abandoning fairness or due process, Phoebe suggests returning to enduring principles such as dignity, employee voice, transparency and fairness, while thinking more carefully about risk, proportionality and the outcome organisations are actually trying to achieve.
The episode challenges HR professionals to move beyond automatically following familiar processes and instead bring curiosity, adaptability, commercial thinking and good judgement to increasingly complex workplace decisions.
What You’ll Learn
Why international growth is ultimately a people transformation story

What New Zealand businesses can draw on when competing internationally

Why founders may need to shift from being the “hero” to becoming the “architect”

Why leadership capability should be built earlier than many growing businesses expect

How curiosity, learning agility and adaptability can be designed into an organisation

Why leadership development does not always require a formal course

Why simplification should be treated as a strategic discipline

How organisations can create capacity by deciding what to stop

Why AI could unintentionally make some work more intense

How better work design can support sustainable performance

Why organisational resilience cannot sit solely with the individual

Why clarity can matter more than certainty during change

Why traditional HR processes may need to evolve as work changes

How fairness, employee voice and transparency can remain central while processes become more proportionate

Why preventative approaches can help resolve workplace issues before they become formal complaints

How HR can rethink investigations and restructuring without losing sight of duty of care

Why jobs may become more fluid as organisations move towards designing work rather than fixed roles

Why curiosity, adaptability, risk awareness and good judgement will be increasingly important HR capabilities

Key Takeaways
New Zealand businesses have genuine strengths on the world stage, including trustworthiness, resourcefulness, strong relationships, resilience and an ability to solve problems.
International growth changes more than the customer base. It changes leadership, systems, processes, capability and the way work gets done.
As organisations scale, leaders need to become less focused on personally solving every problem and more focused on building an environment where others can solve them.
Simplification is a strategic discipline. Growth and change naturally create more processes and controls, so leaders also need to ask what can be stopped, removed or consolidated.
Productivity should not simply mean asking people to do more. Sustainable performance requires organisations to look at how work itself is designed.
In uncertain environments, leaders cannot always provide certainty. They can provide clarity about what is known, what matters and what happens next.
HR processes should serve the people and business problem they are intended to solve. Fairness, employee voice, dignity and transparency remain essential, but that does not mean every situation requires the same process.
The future of HR will require stronger judgement, curiosity, commercial awareness and adaptability as technology, roles and traditional ways of working continue to evolve.
About Phoebe Chandler
Phoebe Chandler is Chief People Officer at New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (NZTE).
Her career spans senior people and employee experience roles across New Zealand and the UK. After spending 10 years offshore, Phoebe returned to New Zealand and joined NZTE, combining her international experience with a strong interest in helping New Zealand businesses grow and compete globally.
She is passionate about making work better, simpler and more human, with particular interests in leadership, employee experience, organisational change, work design, productivity and how AI is reshaping the future of work.
Why This Episode Matters
HR is operating in a world where technology, jobs, organisational structures and employee expectations are changing faster than many traditional processes were designed to handle.
Phoebe’s perspective brings the conversation back to the fundamentals: understand what problem you are trying to solve, create clarity, simplify where possible, build capability early, and apply judgement rather than automatically adding another layer of process.
For HR professionals, People & Culture leaders, founders, executives and managers, this episode offers a practical look at how organisations can grow and adapt while creating work that remains sustainable, human and commercially effective.
Resources & Links
New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (NZTE): https://www.nzte.govt.nz/
Connect with Phoebe Chandler on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phoebe-chandler-0470037a/
HR Unlocked: https://linktr.ee/hrunlocked
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Everyone wants an AI-powered economy. But who takes responsibility when the technology gets things wrong, and how do we make sure everyone shares the long-promised productivity gains?
That’s at the heart of this week’s episode of The Business of Tech, recorded as the US absorbs its midterm election results and New Zealand waits for special votes to help determine the next government.
My guest, Victoria University of Wellington AI researcher Dr Andrew Lensen, argues that getting value from AI requires more than buying software, building data centres and telling staff to embrace AI. It needs leadership, accountability and evidence that the investment actually delivers.
For the next government, Lensen’s starting point is to have someone in charge. A senior minister responsible for AI would give the issue political weight. An independent body, the equivalent of the Privacy Commissioner, could help turn broad promises about responsible technology into practical oversight.
Explainability and an appeal process
Lensen sees merit in an AI commissioner, with powers to investigate complaints and scrutinise automated decisions. If a government agency uses AI to make a consequential decision about you, there should be an explanation and a way to challenge it.
But rules are only part of the equation. Leaders also need their people on board.
Selling AI primarily as a vehicle for job cuts, as the coalition Government did earlier this year, risks sabotaging its introduction. The employees who understand an organisation’s processes are often best placed to identify where the technology could help. Give them a reason to fear it, and that knowledge becomes harder to unlock.
“As soon as you say, hey, by the way, we're going to get you to do this, and then we'll fire you. I mean, you're really not going to get much progress being made,” Lensen says.
Then there’s the productivity question. Are organisations measuring improvements, or simply assuming that more AI means better performance?
“Because there's so much where at the moment it feels like it's on vibes.”
Better metrics on AI's impact
Lensen wants proper comparisons between existing processes and AI-assisted alternatives, with success measures set upfront. Time saved, fewer complaints and better outcomes matter more than enthusiastic anecdotes.
We also tackle the data-centre boom. What should New Zealand expect in return for supplying land, electricity and infrastructure? Could access to computing capacity help local researchers and startups, rather than simply serving offshore demand?
This isn’t a call to stop experimenting. It’s a challenge to get more focused about what success looks like, articulate who benefits and who answers when things go wrong.
Listen to this week’s The Business of Tech in full, streaming on iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.
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What if maternity leave was the beginning of a completely new career?
When Ella Tebby became a mum, she knew she didn't want to return to full-time teaching. But with no business experience, no business idea and just $1,000 to get started, she had no idea where to begin.
After joining our It Happen programme, Ella turned her experience as an early childhood teacher into Education Starts at Home, a product-based business that generated over $300,000 in its first year!
Just ONE MONTH after launching, she was earning more than she had as a teacher. In this episode, Ella shares how she found her product idea, built an audience before launching, and used clever, low-cost marketing strategies to grow her business.
She also opens up about the challenges behind the success, including a sudden downturn in sales that forced her to rethink her entire marketing strategy.
Now a Make It Happen Emerging Founder of the Year winner, Ella is proof that you don't need a huge budget or years of experience to build a successful business.
Ready to take your business further?
🔗 Book a free strategy call: https://www.makeithappen.org.nz/
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🌐 Website: educationstartsathome.com
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