The Articulate Fly

Episode Overview
In this episode of The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash sits down with Josh Trammell, Head Guide at Mad River Outfitters in Columbus, Ohio, for a candid look at what it takes to build and sustain a full-time, four-season guide career. Josh covers the Ohio multi-species fishing calendar — smallmouth bass, northern pike, steelhead and carp — along with seasonal guiding in Alaska and destination schools targeting musky and trophy trout.
Josh traces his path from catching his first steelhead at age 11 on Elk Creek with Tim Hess — a swung fly — through early years shadowing the Steelhead Alley Outfitters crew of Greg Senyo, Nate Miller and Patrick Robinson, to becoming Head Guide at Mad River Outfitters and a seasonal guide at Naknek River Camp near King Salmon, Alaska. His guide year spans Ohio smallmouth through multiple simultaneous seasonal windows on Lake Erie tributaries and inland rivers, northern pike during their late-winter pre-spawn, steelhead from November through freeze-up and summer Pacific salmon guiding in Alaska. Josh also discusses the January musky school he co-runs with Blane Chocklett and Virginia Trophy Guides in Roanoke, Virginia, spring trout trips to the White River in Arkansas and his growing enthusiasm for carp on the fly. Throughout, he shares practical, unvarnished advice for aspiring full-time guides on the financial realities, logistics and genuine passion required to make it work year-round.
Key Takeaways
How a young angler can break into guide work at reduced financial risk by starting early, staying local and leveraging mentor relationships before major life expenses accumulate.
Why the four-season model — cycling through Ohio smallmouth, pike, steelhead, Alaska salmon and destination schools — insulates full-time guides from unpredictable weather far better than single-species operations.
When Ohio smallmouth become the most technically versatile species to guide, spanning crayfish dead-drifts, big early-season streamers, scaled-down baitfish imitations and topwater presentations across multiple seasonal phases.
Why calibrating each guide day to the individual client's skill level and genuine expectations — rather than chasing personal hero shots — is the real key to repeat business and a sustainable career.
How carp on the fly delivers a saltwater-style sight-fishing experience on Ohio freshwater, with few presentations per day and a high premium on reading fish behavior before ever picking up the rod.
Why partnering with a full-service fly shop like Mad River Outfitters gives clients a reliable gear and knowledge resource and meaningfully reduces administrative pressure on the guide.

Techniques & Gear Covered
Josh guides across a wide technique spectrum that shifts with species and season. Ohio smallmouth receive dead-drifted crayfish patterns in low, clear conditions; big early-season streamers in high or stained water; scaled-down slim-profile baitfish imitations as flows drop through summer; and topwater presentations during the warmest stretches of the year. Steelhead on Steelhead Alley are targeted on both swung flies and indicator rigs, while northern pike receive focused attention during their January and February pre-spawn window — when Ohio weather cooperates. Carp fishing is an increasingly important part of Josh's warm-weather program, using a methodical visual approach borrowed directly from saltwater fly fishing: reading feeding behavior, waiting for clean shot opportunities and presenting deliberately to individual fish, often making no more than 10 to 15 casts in a full day. The annual musky school he leads with Blane Chocklett in Roanoke, Virginia, pairs a one-day tactical masterclass in predator fly techniques with four days of fishing on the water through Virginia Trophy Guides.
Locations & Species
Josh's Ohio guiding program covers Lake Erie tributaries and inland rivers in northeastern Ohio, targeting steelhead through the November to freeze-up window and northern pike during the late-winter pre-spawn period. Ohio's multi-phase smallmouth calendar — with pre-spawn, spawning and post-spawn fish available simultaneously across different tributaries in mid-spring — gives Josh an unusually diverse season that stretches from spring through early fall. Carp are pursued on Ohio's clearer flatwater fisheries using visual sight-fishing methods, providing a reliable warm-weather alternative when smallmouth and pike waters run high and off-color. For destination work, Josh guides Pacific salmon at Naknek River Camp on the drainage near King Salmon, Alaska through summer; pursues musky with Virginia Trophy Guides on rivers outside Roanoke each January; and leads spring trout trips targeting caddis and sulphur hatches on the White River near Flippin and Cotter, Arkansas.
FAQ / Key Questions Answered
How do you break into a full-time fly fishing guide career?
Josh emphasizes starting young when bills and financial obligations are minimal — shadowing established guides on both working trips and fun-fishing days, learning how programs are structured and how to rig for different conditions. Building genuine relationships within a regional guide community, as Josh did with the Steelhead Alley Outfitters crew, opens the doors to early opportunities. He cautions that anyone entering the guide game with significant financial obligations should plan carefully around Mother Nature's ability to cancel trips and budget realistically for the shoulder seasons.
What does a full four-season guide year look like in Ohio?
Starting in mid-spring, Josh runs Ohio smallmouth across multiple simultaneous seasonal windows on Lake Erie tributaries and inland rivers, alongside pike fishing that extends through warm weather. He transitions to Alaska for Pacific salmon guiding through early October, returns for a brief Ohio window before steelhead season opens in November and then runs Steelhead Alley through December freeze-up. Winter brings the annual musky school in Roanoke, Virginia with Blane Chocklett; spring opens destination trout trips on the White River in Arkansas; and carp provide a flexible alternative when other fisheries are unfishable.
Why are Ohio smallmouth such a compelling guide species?
Unlike steelhead, which Josh describes as largely limited to swung or indicator-presented flies, Ohio smallmouth accommodate a wide range of techniques across multiple seasonal phases — from large early-season streamers in blown-out water to crayfish patterns in low, clear conditions to topwater presentations on summer flows. That tactical variety keeps guides and clients engaged across a far longer window than most single-species programs allow. The overlapping seasonal stages across different river systems also mean a thoughtful guide can almost always find smallmouth in a fishable phase somewhere in the region.
What is the key to being a successful fishing guide?
Josh argues that the most important skill is calibrating each day to the individual client's actual skill level and genuine expectations — not the guide's own benchmark for a good outing. A beginner who lands several smallmouth while mastering a 30- to 40-foot cast has had an excellent day by their measure, which may look very different from a guide's definition of success. Open communication between guide and client about what they actually want from the day smooths out the experience and builds the kind of relationship that generates return bookings.
How does carp fishing on the fly compare to other species in Josh's program?
Josh describes carp as the closest freshwater equivalent to saltwater sight fishing available in Ohio — standing, hunting, watching and waiting before making deliberate presentations to individual fish rather than covering water. On a productive day with 10 shots at fish, he may cast only 10 to 15 times total, making each presentation count. High-water years that push smallmouth and pike fisheries off-color or out of shape have accelerated his carp development, and he now relies on it as a consistent warm-weather alternative when other species aren't cooperating.
Sponsors
Thanks to TroutRoutes for sponsoring this episode. Use ARTFLY20 to get 20% off of your TroutRoutes Pro membership.
Related Content
S6, Ep 97: Fly Fishing Wisdom and Industry Pet Peeves with Greg Senyo
S7, Ep 40: Exploring the Carp Game: Techniques and Tales with Corey Haselhuhn of Schultz Outfitters
S8, Ep 22: From The Chocklett Factory: Blane Chocklett on Community, Conservation and New Fly Releases
S8, Ep 24: From Tattoo to Trout: Aaron Chine's Dual Passion for Art and Steelhead...

Episode Overview
In this Pennsylvania Smallmouth Report on The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash reconnects with Captain Brian Shumaker of Susquehanna River Guides for an early-June conditions check on the Susquehanna and Juniata rivers in Central Pennsylvania. Recent heavy rainfall pushed both systems well above normal — the Susquehanna approaching 12 feet, the Juniata topping 10 — and Brian breaks down how he's fishing the receding flows and what anglers can expect as the post-spawn transition plays out through summer.
Brian walks through his high-water strategy in practical terms: pounding banks where rising water has pushed smallmouth tight to structure, reading fish mood through fly rotation, and knowing when to abandon streamers in favor of crayfish patterns on the bottom when visibility collapses. He explains his color logic for stained water — bigger profiles, darker tones when the water is heavily colored, lighter options as clarity returns — and how he uses river gauge readings in feet rather than CFS to make positioning decisions on the water. The conversation also looks ahead to the summer outlook, contrasting the good-conditions scenario if periodic rains continue with the low, clear, finesse-game reality that sets in by mid-July in a dry year, and confirms that Fourth of July remains the reliable benchmark for prime topwater smallmouth fishing with poppers on the Susquehanna system.
Key Takeaways
How to keep smallmouth in play during high flows by targeting bank structure where rising water has concentrated fish.
Why fly color selection should track water clarity — blacks and purples in heavy stain, transitioning to olives and lighter colors as visibility improves.
When to commit fully to bottom-fished crayfish patterns rather than continuing to work streamers in severely off-color conditions.
How Brian Shumaker uses river gauge height in feet — not CFS — as his primary decision tool for positioning anglers relative to bank structure and grass beds.
Why rotating through as many as a dozen and a half fly patterns in a single session is sometimes necessary to crack the post-spawn "June funk."
When to expect prime topwater action on the Susquehanna system, and how a dry summer shifts the game to long casts, stealth and finesse presentations by mid-July.

Techniques & Gear Covered
Brian Shumaker's approach to high, dirty water on the Susquehanna and Juniata centers on two core tactics: larger-profile streamers fished tight to bank structure and mid-river features, and crayfish patterns worked on the bottom when visibility drops low enough to make streamer fishing inefficient. Fly color selection is deliberately calibrated to water clarity — blacks and purples in the dirtiest conditions, with oranges, olives and lighter tones becoming viable as the water clears. Brian notes he doesn't rely heavily on rattles despite the conditions, keeping his confidence in profile and color adjustments instead. On the topwater front, he and Marvin discuss poppers, Murdich Minnows and Shimmering Minnows as the primary summer surface and near-surface options once fish fully exit the post-spawn doldrums. Across the board, Brian emphasizes a high-volume fly rotation — sometimes six flies on a good day, sometimes eighteen — as the diagnostic tool for reading fish mood under the unpredictable early-summer conditions.
Locations & Species
This report centers on two of Central Pennsylvania's premier smallmouth systems: the Susquehanna River and the Juniata River. Recent rainfall events pushed the Susquehanna to nearly 12 feet and the Juniata past 10 feet; at recording time the Susquehanna had receded into fishable shape with good water from the west bank to mid-river, while the east side remained off-color and the Juniata was still heavily stained but dropping. The target species throughout is smallmouth bass, with fish spread across a spectrum of post-spawn recovery stages in early June — some already fully recovered, others still normalizing. Brian's outlook for late July and early August hinges on whether the eastern seaboard's dry pattern reasserts itself: adequate rainfall means prime conditions, while a dry stretch could produce bony, clear, low-water rivers by mid-July that demand a completely different approach.
FAQ / Key Questions Answered
How do you approach streamer fishing when the Susquehanna or Juniata is running high and dirty?
Brian Shumaker focuses on a bigger fly profile and adjusts color based on how much stain is in the water. In the heaviest color, blacks and purples are his go-to; as visibility improves, he moves toward olives and lighter tones. He targets banks where rising water has pushed fish tight to structure, while also covering mid-river features when conditions allow.
When is it time to abandon streamers and go to crayfish on the bottom?
When water is severely off-color and visibility is minimal, Brian moves straight to crayfish patterns fished on the bottom. In those conditions, the streamer game becomes inefficient, and a bottom presentation where fish are holding near structure is the more reliable path to bites.
How does Brian use river gauge readings to make fishing decisions?
Brian tracks both rivers by height in feet — old school, as he puts it, rather than CFS — which tells him where the water sits relative to bank structure. That reading determines whether he needs to fish hard against the bank or can pull off slightly, and on the Susquehanna it factors in whether emerging grass beds are worth targeting as conditions clear.
What should anglers expect from the post-spawn "June funk" on Pennsylvania smallmouth rivers?
The June post-spawn period produces inconsistent fish behavior as smallmouth recover and begin feeding more actively. Brian describes it as a rotation game — he may cycle through six flies on a cooperative day and eighteen on a tough one, simply working through options until something triggers a response. Patience and a deep fly selection are the keys.
When does reliable topwater smallmouth fishing begin on the Susquehanna, and what changes that timeline?
Brian pegs the Fourth of July as the traditional start of prime topwater action with poppers and surface patterns. That holds if periodic rainfall keeps flows reasonable through summer. A dry stretch that leaves the river bony, skinny and clear by mid-July shifts the game entirely — long casts, stealth and finesse presentations replace the aggressive topwater bite.
Related Content
S8, Ep 31 – Chasing Smallmouth: Brian Shumaker's Adaptations for Unpredictable Spring Weather
S8, Ep 27 – The Pre-Spawn Puzzle: Captain Brian Shumaker's Tips for Pennsylvania Smallmouth
S8, Ep 29 – Fishing in Flux: Matt Reilly's Take on Spring Trends and Techniques
S7, Ep 52 – The Summer Shift: Adapting Your Fly Game with Brendan Ruch
S1, Ep 97 – All Things Smallmouth with Mike Schultz
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Episode Overview
In this Southwest Virginia Fishing Report on The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash checks in with guide Matt Reilly of Matt Reilly Fly Fishing for a candid late-spring conditions update covering the post-spawn transition, dirty water tactics and the seasonal arc ahead. Recorded amid rising, stained flows on the New River and surrounding drainages — following months of below-average flows — the episode captures a moment when Southwest Virginia smallmouth fishing is firmly in between patterns, and angler adaptability is the only reliable edge. Reilly addresses the dual pressure facing anglers right now: a post-spawn funk settling over fish on some waters while others remain slightly earlier in that arc, and high, off-color water shrinking reactive distances and pushing fish to the bottom. He details how an early crayfish molt — triggered by unusually warm water temps in the low-to-mid 70s weeks ahead of schedule — has shifted his focus away from streamer presentations and toward bottom-contact crayfish patterns on fish that are otherwise visible but unmovable on top. Reilly also previews the seasonal calendar ahead, sketching the transition through a late-May/June baitfish bite, crayfish activity and eventually the cleaner, lower-water conditions that make topwater the dominant game — typically not until around the Fourth of July. Guide availability closes the episode, with Reilly noting his summer calendar is fully booked and early October representing the next realistic opportunity for prospective clients.
Key Takeaways
How to identify the post-spawn funk by its signature symptom: cycling rapidly through multiple fly types with sporadic, pattern-less catches.
Why bottom-contact crayfish patterns outperform streamers and topwater when smallmouth are locked down during an early crayfish molt.
How to approach high, stained water when flows are elevated but not extreme — targeting the bottom rather than automatically moving to the banks, because fish can spread across mid-river structure when current isn't pushing them to the edges.
Why an early summer crayfish molt can pull even cruising, visible fish away from topwater presentations and onto gravel-bar bottom feeding.
When to expect the seasonal transition to more consistent patterns: a late-May/June baitfish bite followed by bug-fishing conditions that typically don't fully materialize until around the Fourth of July.

Techniques & Gear Covered
Reilly runs multiple rods in the boat simultaneously — a floating line with a topwater bug, an intermediate-tip with a streamer and a floater rigged with a crayfish — to rotate through presentations efficiently when no single pattern dominates. In dirty, elevated water he emphasizes making bottom contact as the primary directive, noting that smallmouth research documents a behavioral shift toward bottom-oriented hunting when turbidity increases. Crayfish patterns are the anchor of his current program given the early molt activity, with darker, high-contrast and flashier fly choices appropriate for off-color conditions. Streamer fishing remains part of the rotation but Reilly is candid that listening to what the fish show you — even when it conflicts with your instinct — is the overriding tactical discipline during transitional windows.
Locations & Species
The episode centers on Southwest Virginia's river systems, with the New River specifically mentioned as the water Reilly was guiding on the day of recording. The New is described as deteriorating during the conversation — elevated and stained from recent rainfall — but holding up better than surrounding rivers that Reilly characterizes as borderline blown out. Smallmouth bass are the sole target species discussed. Conditions at time of recording include water temperatures already touching the mid-70s — well ahead of the typical early June arrival of such temps — and flow levels running significantly below seasonal averages for the year before recent rains, creating a compressed, accelerated seasonal arc that has pushed crayfish molt timing and post-spawn transitions out of seasonal norms.
FAQ / Key Questions Answered
How do you know when you're in the post-spawn funk and what do you do about it?
Reilly identifies the funk by a tell-tale pattern: you start with one fly, catch one fish, slow down, switch flies, catch another, slow down again, and end the day with six wet flies of five different types drying on the boat bag. When that's happening, he leans on instinct — reading the water type in front of him and putting his best guess forward — while staying honest about whether a presentation isn't working or just needs more time. He acknowledges it's sometimes simply tough and you have to grind through it.
Why would you target the bottom in high, stained water rather than moving to the banks?
When water is elevated but not high enough to concentrate fish in bank-side slack water, smallmouth can spread broadly across mid-river structure — and increased turbidity shrinks reactive distances significantly. Reilly points to behavioral research showing smallmouth shift to bottom-oriented hunting in dirty water. Getting a fly to the bottom gives fish a plane they can reliably relate to even when visibility is poor, and on the day of recording it was the only approach consistently producing.
What triggers a crayfish molt and why does it pull fish off topwater?
Early warm water — Reilly observed low-to-mid-70s temperatures weeks ahead of the typical mid- to late-June timing — accelerates crayfish shedding their shells, making them soft and highly vulnerable. Even smallmouth that would otherwise be ideal topwater candidates were cruising shallow gravel bars but locked to the bottom, unwilling to come up. Once you see that behavior, Reilly says you have to accept it and feed them crayfish regardless of how tempting topwater looks.
When does consistent topwater fishing typically kick in for Southwest Virginia smallmouth?
Reilly frames late May through mid-June as a transitional window featuring a baitfish bite (non-game fish like darters and chubs spawning, creating forage) interspersed with molting crayfish activity. Reliable topwater conditions — when it becomes the path-of-least-resistance strategy rather than just a fun option — typically don't arrive until water temperatures and flows settle in the summer, usually around the Fourth of July, assuming conditions don't remain abnormally low and clear even sooner.
What does Matt Reilly's fall guide calendar look like, and what should you expect booking-wise?
As of this recording Reilly's summer is fully booked, with early October being the next available window. He describes October as a mixed bag: possible hurricane-driven high water and strong streamer fishing, or a continuation of summer patterns depending on the year — but consistently a period when big fish show up in the first couple weeks before his focus shifts entirely to musky season.
Related Content
S8, Ep 29 – Fishing in Flux: Matt Reilly's Take on Spring Trends and Techniques
S8, Ep 23 – Low Water Chronicles: Matt Reilly on Pre-Spawn Smallmouth Strategies and Seasonal Shifts
S6, Ep 112 – Smallmouth Transitions and Musky Prep: Matt Reilly's Southwest VA Update
S6, Ep 71 – Adapting to Heat and Low Flows: A Southwest Virginia Fishing Report with Matt Reilly
Connect with Our Guest
Follow Matt on Instagram.
Follow the Show
Follow The Articulate Fly on Facebook, Instagram, Threads and YouTube.
Follow our Substack newsletter for episode updates, tips and resources.
Support the Show
Shop through our Amazon link to support the podcast.
Join our Patreon community to support the show.
If you are in the industry and need help getting unstuck, learn more about our

Episode Overview
In this East Tennessee Fishing Report on The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash checks in with guide Ellis Ward for an early-summer conditions update focused on the Watauga River tailwater. After a dry spring that kept anglers grinding through tough conditions, a stretch of rain and rising water has Ellis bullish on what's ahead: bigger flows, off-color water, and the full slate of techniques that make East Tennessee tailwaters unique. He covers the current Watauga generation schedule (six days a week, five hours of afternoon generation), how that release window shapes a full-day float, and why the combination of streamers, dry fly fishing to rising trout, and mousing after dark makes summer his favorite time of year to be on the water. Ellis also discusses the browns that have been showing up even through the tough conditions — fish in the 24-inch range with a handful over two feet — and a striper in the 34–35 inch class that made it to the boat. The deeper thread of the conversation is mindset: Ellis draws a direct parallel between hunting big brown trout on streamers and musky fishing, emphasizing patience, sustained focus, team mechanics in the boat, and the discipline of forming good habits before a big fish shows. His approach to dry flies gets equal attention, with a nuanced breakdown of how he thinks about hackle, CDC, and the meniscus — treating dry flies as micro topwater rather than fixed imitations.
Key Takeaways
How the Watauga River's afternoon generation schedule structures a productive full-day float that can include streamers, dry fly fishing to risers, and mousing after dark.
Why approaching big brown trout on streamers through the lens of musky fishing — managing expectations, maintaining focus, and working as a team — produces fish that pure numbers-chasing won't.
How to distinguish the post-spawn streamer fishery (low-feedback, high-consequence encounters with giant fish) from the early-summer streamer bite when 20 or more fish in the boat per day becomes realistic.
Why the visual feedback of rising trout makes dry fly fishing a productive mental reset within a streamer-focused float, keeping anglers sharp throughout the day.
How to think about dry fly construction in terms of water contact — CDC touch points versus hackle touch points, emerger versus floating presentations — rather than vise aesthetics.
When moon selection matters for night mousing on tailwaters and why the hook set on a mousing fish is a fundamentally different skill than a streamer or dry fly hook set.

Techniques & Gear Covered
This episode covers a multi-technique summer tailwater program built around the Watauga River generation schedule. Ellis describes the float structure in detail: streamer fishing for the first several hours, pausing for risers whenever the dry fly opportunity presents itself, then transitioning to mousing as light fades — a full-day arc that demands different focus and mechanics at each stage. On streamers, Ellis fishes seven-weight setups with smaller trout flies rather than musky-scale patterns, emphasizing presentation discipline (getting the fly three inches from the bank when necessary), sustained team focus, and strip-set timing over fly size or flash. His dry fly breakdown centers on how materials actually sit on the water: he favors CDC for its hundreds of micro touch points holding the fly at the meniscus, contrasting it with the louder, fewer contact points of rooster hackle, and notes that many flies riding low in the surface are effectively fishing as emergers regardless of how they look in the vise. Mousing is treated as a patience game similar to streamer fishing, with moon phase factoring into session planning and requiring a hook set distinct from both streamers and dry flies. Ellis also notes bucktail availability through his website, elliswardflies.com, as musky conditions improve with returning rain.
Locations & Species
The primary fishery discussed is the Watauga River tailwater in East Tennessee, based out of Johnson City. Ellis also guides on the South Holston River, referenced briefly in the context of his broader East Tennessee tailwater program. Both systems are classic Tennessee tailwaters — dam-controlled flows with temperature-stabilized water that supports year-round trout fishing distinct from freestone or western tailwater fisheries. The main target species are brown trout, with multiple fish in the 24-inch range mentioned and a handful over two feet even through a difficult low-water spring. The episode also notes a 34–35 inch striper landed a couple weeks prior. Ellis mentions returning to musky fishing once water conditions improve following recent rain — a species he has been sidelined from during the spawn and low-water period. The early-summer window discussed (late May through July) is framed as some of the most consistent streamer action of the year, with the post-spawn bite giving way to days where 20 or more fish in the boat on streamers is achievable.
FAQ / Key Questions Answered
How does the Watauga River generation schedule affect how you structure a full day of guided fishing?
Ellis builds the float around the generation window: five hours of afternoon generation, six days a week. This gives the boat several hours of fishable water in the morning before generation kicks in, a streamer window as levels rise and off-color water comes through, and then the opportunity to stay on the water into darkness for mousing as levels drop back out. The generation schedule effectively writes the day's agenda, and Ellis treats each phase as a distinct technique opportunity rather than fighting the releases.
How is hunting big brown trout on streamers similar to musky fishing, and why does that mindset matter?
Ellis draws a direct parallel: big browns on streamers require the same patience, sustained focus, and expectation management that musky fishing demands. Unlike an indicator rig where the feedback is constant, streamer fishing can go hours between meaningful encounters, and the moment your concentration lapses is typically when a fish shows. He treats large browns the way he would treat a musky — working the boat as a team, identifying specific water to target, maintaining good habits throughout the day rather than only when a fish is behind the fly.
What is the difference between the post-spawn streamer bite and the early-summer streamer bite in East Tennessee?
Post-spawn (January–February) is a low-feedback, high-consequence game: you may go four or five hours without a follow, but the fish you do see could be jaw-dropping in size, and its appearance has nothing to do with the overall bite. Early summer shifts that dynamic significantly — fish are active, untargeted, and on a good day Ellis is putting 20 or more in the boat on streamers, with the realistic chance that a 26 or 27-inch brown shows up in a session where you've already seen a lot of fish. The two windows require similar discipline but very different expectation-setting.
How does Ellis think about dry fly construction for tailwater fishing?
Rather than tying for appearance in the vise, Ellis focuses on how each material interacts with the surface. He favors CDC for its density of micro touch points — potentially hundreds or thousands of tiny fibers holding the fly at the meniscus — compared to the louder but fewer contact points of rooster hackle. He notes that many "dry flies" are functionally fishing as emergers, sitting partly in the surface film, and that understanding where the fly actually sits (and what happens when you skate or move it) is more valuable than visual realism at the vise. He treats dry flies as micro topwater, with the same attention to presentation and action he applies to streamers.
When does mousing become a priority in Ellis's summer guiding program, and what makes it different from streamer fishing?
Ellis starts mousing as water drops and light fades at the end of a float, and he selects sessions in part around moon phase, particularly when dedicating a multi-hour block to it. The technique shares streamer fishing's grind-and-patience arc — long stretches without action punctuated by high-consequence eats — but the hook set is fundamentally different and requires practice to execute correctly. He describes August and September as the window when he becomes "chirpier" about mousing specifically, though the summer program already incorporates mousing as the third act of a streamer-and-dry-fly day.
Related Content
S7, Ep 14: The Streamer Playbook: Tips and Tactics for Targeting Big Trout in East Tennessee with Ellis Ward
S7, Ep 32: Swim Flies and Trout Tactics: An East Tennessee Fishing Report with Ellis Ward
S7, Ep 45: Navigating the Waters: Streamers and Strategies in East Tennessee with Ellis Ward
S6, Ep 98: Navigating Late Summer Waters and Mousing Tactics with Ellis...

Episode Overview
In this Casting Angles segment on The Articulate Fly, host Marvin Cash and veteran guide and Master Casting Instructor Mac Brown tackle one of the most practical — and underappreciated — skill sets in freshwater fly fishing: how to adapt your approach when elevated, stained water follows prolonged rainfall. Recorded against the backdrop of a week of steady rain across western North Carolina, with more forecast ahead, Mac shares a framework for fly selection, water reading and presentation discipline that turns a condition most anglers write off into a genuine tactical advantage.
Mac and Marvin walk through the core principles of fishing stained water: understanding where fish go when visibility drops (higher in the column, into the kitchen riffles), how to match fly color and size to actual visibility rather than habit, and why the grid-tightening approach — spending two to three times longer per spot and halving your grid interval — is the single most important behavioral adjustment for covering dirty water effectively. The conversation also touches on how stained conditions can work in an angler's favor by masking wading noise and allowing closer approaches, and closes with an update on Mac Brown's newly redesigned websites and upcoming fly fishing schools and masterclasses out of Bryson City, North Carolina.
Key Takeaways
How to position flies higher in the water column when stained conditions push trout and bass off structure and toward the surface.
Why contrast — not naturalism — is the governing principle for fly selection in dirty water, and how that logic changes depending on whether you're fishing a deep pool or a shallow riffle.
When to fish dark, high-contrast dry flies (foam or stimulator-style patterns in black or dark gray) versus light-colored nymphs in shallow, broken riffle water where the food is actually concentrated.
How to use size, shine and sound (rattles) as visibility supplements when natural colors become invisible in tea-colored water.
Why tightening your grid — cutting your grid interval in half and spending two to three times longer per spot — is essential when fish can't track a fly from distance in low-visibility conditions.
How stained water tilts the odds in the angler's favor by masking wading noise and enabling closer presentations that would spook fish in clear conditions.

Techniques & Gear Covered
Mac Brown's stained-water framework covers three primary presentations. For dry fly fishing, he advocates dark, high-contrast patterns — black foam bodies, dark brown bodies and black stimulator-style flies — that read clearly against an overcast sky. For nymphing, the key distinction is depth: in deep holes, light penetration is insufficient for fish to see anything, so Mac redirects anglers to shallow riffle heads (what he calls "the kitchen") where fish move to feed and where visibility remains functional in as little as a foot of water. In those shallower zones, he recommends light-colored, small and shiny nymph patterns. Marvin adds that mops and dark stonefly patterns fished with a jigging retrieve are effective for probing stained water more slowly and deliberately, coaxing reluctant fish to commit. Mac references the "Rain X Mop" developed by Jim Estes as an example of a light-colored pattern that works well in shallow riffle water. Rattles are noted as a viable visibility supplement, consistent with the same logic that makes sound important in night fishing. The overarching gear philosophy: let the contrast between fly and water, not the fly's naturalistic fidelity, drive your selection.
FAQ / Key Questions Answered
How do I choose fly colors when fishing stained or dirty water?
Mac Brown's core principle is contrast over naturalism: pick a fly color that stands out against the actual background the fish sees, not the color that matches the natural. In overcast conditions with stained water, that means dark dries (black, dark gray) against a light sky, and light or shiny nymphs in shallow zones where the water itself is the dark background. The single rule of thumb is to avoid matching the water's color — a tea-colored fly in tea-colored water is effectively invisible.
Where do trout and bass go when water levels rise and clarity drops?
Both trout and bass move higher in the water column and position themselves in shallower, broken water — particularly riffle heads and foam lines at the head of pools, which Mac calls "the kitchen." These are the zones where dislodged food concentrates and where there's enough ambient light for fish to see. Deep holes become largely unproductive in stained conditions because light penetration is insufficient for fish to spot a fly at depth.
How should I adjust my wading and water coverage in dirty water?
Mac Brown recommends spending two to three times longer in each spot compared to clear-water fishing, and cutting your grid interval roughly in half — from, say, two feet to one foot. Because reduced visibility shortens the distance at which fish can track and respond to a fly, thorough, systematic coverage becomes far more important than covering ground. The goal is to put the fly close enough that the fish almost bumps into it.
Why can stained water actually be an advantage for fly fishers?
Two factors work in the angler's favor when water is stained: fish are less able to detect the angler's presence, which allows closer approaches without spooking; and wading noise is substantially masked by the increased water volume and surface disturbance. Mac Brown notes that he personally prefers fishing in stained conditions for exactly these reasons — the playing field tilts toward the angler who adjusts technique accordingly rather than waiting for clear water.
When should I use dry flies versus nymphs in elevated, stained conditions?
Mac recommends a dry-dropper setup with the dropper kept very close to the surface — not three or four feet down — so that the nymph remains in the productive visibility zone. Dark, high-contrast dries remain viable in stained conditions as long as they're readable against the sky. Pure deep nymphing in pools is largely unproductive; the better bet is redirecting to shallow riffle water where fish are actively feeding and the fly can be seen.
Related Content
S7, Ep 41 – Navigating High Water: Strategies for Success with Mac Brown
S8, Ep 25 – The Science of Stealth: Mac Brown on Fishing Techniques for Low Flow Scenarios
S8, Ep 21 – Casting into Spring: Mac Brown Discusses Wild Trout Fishing and Upcoming Classes
S7, Ep 28 – Warming Waters and Active Fish: A Spring Fishing Update with Mac Brown
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