Lead Culture with Jenni Catron

In this episode, Jenni talks with leadership development specialist and author Adam Tarnow about why middle management feels like an impossible role, and why it may actually be the most important one in an organization. They unpack the tension of carrying responsibility without full control, and Adam shares a practical framework for navigating the stress of leadership without burning out. In this episode, Adam explains why the middle is where execution happens, why so many managers feel stuck in a “valley,” and how leaders can regain a sense of agency by focusing on what they can control. He also offers a simple sentence-based tool from his book The Fog of Work that helps leaders move from overwhelm to action.
Key Topics
Jenni introduces the episode by framing culture as either a strategic asset or a liability, especially during growth, merger, or crisis.
Adam shares why he wrote The Fog of Work and why middle managers became his focus after years of living in that role himself.
They discuss how middle management used to be a respected position, and how pop culture turned it into a punchline.
Adam explains why middle managers are often the “verbs in the sentence” of an organization - the people who make execution happen.
The conversation highlights the pressure of being a player-coach: managing your own work while leading others.
Jenni names the “they” problem - the tendency to blame vague forces instead of recognizing personal influence and agency.
Adam describes middle management as a valley where problems roll downhill and collect, creating stress, ambiguity, and accountability without full control.
He introduces the idea that the real question is not “How do I get out?” but “How do I get through?”
Adam shares the fog clearing sentence: “I don’t control blank, but I do control blank, so I will blank.”
They connect the middle of an organization to the middle of a story, where growth, character, and transformation happen.
Jenni and Adam both emphasize that leaders can improve culture by focusing on what they can influence directly, especially within their own teams.
The episode closes with encouragement for senior leaders to equip middle managers with practical tools, not just expectations.
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In this episode, Jenni Catron and her 11-year-old nephew River explore the fundamentals of team culture through engaging stories and insights. River shares his unique perspective on support, communication, focus, and the impact of individual roles in shaping a positive culture.

Takeaways:
Support is the most important aspect of culture.
Effective communication is crucial for team success.
Focus and commitment drive team performance.
Everyone has a role in shaping culture, regardless of age.
Positive culture can be maintained or ruined by individual actions.

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to the episode and guest River
01:00 Why we call it Switch Week and family traditions
01:30 River introduces himself and his love for sports
02:27 River shares his thoughts on support in culture
02:56 Support in sports and teams
03:23 The importance of communication in team culture
04:21 Learning from communication in pickleball
05:16 Communication during baseball games
05:45 The impact of fast plays and clear communication
07:16 Focus and distraction in sports
08:11 The responsibility of leaders and team members in culture
09:12 The influence of positivity and encouragement
09:36 Recognizing individual roles in culture
10:31 Culture as a fragile ecosystem
11:00 River’s perspective on culture and youth influence
11:31 Closing thoughts and call to action
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In this episode of Lead Culture, Jenni Catron shares what she learned during an extended summer break and why stepping back can be essential for sustainable leadership. She reflects on the tension between doing and being, the challenge of slowing down, and how time away revealed deeper questions about purpose, significance, and identity.Jenni opens with a reminder that culture does not take care of itself and that leaders must lead with intention. She then shares how her sabbatical included time with friends and family, reading, rest, and intentional disconnection from social media, email, and Slack. Even though the break was restful, it also surfaced a struggle many overachievers face: feeling significant only when they are productive.A major takeaway from the episode is that nothing magical happened on sabbatical — and that was the point. Instead of chasing big ideas or a new vision, Jenni focused on stillness, presence, and making space for what matters most. She describes how this time helped her recognize the importance of creative space, mental rest, and the right-brain work of meaning-making and reflection.Jenni also connects her personal experience to a broader cultural insight, referencing Arthur Brooks’ research on how modern life often overvalues efficiency and problem-solving while undernourishing meaning, creativity, and human connection. She shares how this tension was made even more vivid in the wake of an EF3 tornado in her community, where people rallied together and reminded her that people are the point.
Key Takeaways
Healthy leaders need rhythms that sustain them.
Rest is productive when it creates space for meaning and clarity.
Leaders often confuse being with doing.
Creativity, stillness, and reflection are essential leadership practices.
People should remain the priority, even in busy or crisis-filled seasons.
Questions Jenni Asks Leaders
What can you do that disrupts your rhythms and lowers your heart rate?
How can you disconnect your doing from your being?
Are you making space for quiet, creativity, and presence?
What rhythms do you need to lead in a healthy, sustainable way?
Resources Mentioned
Invitation to Solitude and Silence by Ruth Haley Barton
The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer
The Sabbatical Journey by Alan Briggs
The Meaning of Life by Arthur Brooks
Jenni’s book Clout: Discover and Unleash Your God-given Influence
Closing Encouragement
Jenni ends by encouraging leaders to protect the rhythms that keep them healthy, purposeful, and present — not only for their own well-being, but for the health of their teams and cultures. To connect with Jenni, email jennicatron@get4sight.com.
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As the 4Sight Group celebrates its 10th anniversary and Jenni Catron marks a personal milestone year, she shares why she is stepping away for a four-week sabbatical for the first time in her career.
In this honest conversation, Jenni reflects on nearly three decades of nonstop work, the lessons she has learned about burnout, and the importance of creating margin before exhaustion forces it. She discusses what led her to make this decision, what she hopes to gain from the experience, and how intentional rest can help leaders gain perspective, renew their energy, and lead well for the long haul.
Whether a month-long sabbatical feels possible or not, this episode offers a challenge for every leader: What would intentional rest look like for you this summer? From disconnecting on vacation to stepping away from social media or simply creating space to slow down, Jenni encourages listeners to prioritize rhythms of rest that support healthy leadership and thriving organizations.
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In this episode, Jenni sits down with Dr. William Attaway, CEO of Appreciation at Work, for a conversation about what it really means to help people feel seen, known, and valued at work.
Drawing from decades of leadership coaching and his work with organizations across a wide range of industries, William shares why appreciation is different from recognition—and why that distinction matters more than most leaders realize. Together, Jenni and William explore how appreciation impacts employee engagement, retention, productivity, and trust, while offering practical ways leaders can build cultures where people thrive.
You'll hear insights on:
 Why recognition rewards performance, but appreciation values the person 
 How leaders can maintain both high accountability and genuine encouragement 
 The connection between clarity, trust, and employee engagement 
 Why self-awareness is one of the most important leadership disciplines 
 What healthy leaders do consistently that struggling leaders often neglect 
 How to navigate workplace uncertainty and technological change without losing the human element of leadership 
Throughout the conversation, Jenni and William reinforce a core leadership truth: culture is built one interaction at a time. When people feel seen, heard, and valued, they engage more deeply, contribute more fully, and help create the kind of culture everyone wants to be part of.
Dr. William Attaway is the CEO of Appreciation at Work, founder of Catalytic Leadership, author of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference, and host of the Catalytic Leadership Podcast. Learn more about his work at appreciationatwork.com and catalyticleadership.net.
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