Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

There’s an argument that has gone around for decades and it revolves around the idea of how much worship music do we need? Do we have enough?

On the one hand, yes, we have more worship music than we’ll ever be able to use in our Sunday morning services. And there’s also the argument that worship music is the most lucrative music in Christian music. I don’t think that can be debated.

So while there are business and industry incentives to make worship music that will always exist at the intersection of Christianity and industry, what is the biblical perspective?

What does the Bible teach us about singing, songwriting, and corporate worship?

Trip Lee is a hip hop artist, a preacher, a rapper, an author…and he’s released a worship album.

I appreciate Trip and his commitment to God’s Word.

We talk about the power of worship music, why we need more cultural expressions of it, and how worship music should be viewed as a tool of discipleship. We also talk about culture and Christianity, racial tension, and how we should think about the division in the church right now.

Trip is awesome and this conversation was a joy.

This is David Santistevan and you can reach me anytime at [email protected]. As always thank you for listening.

Topics Covered:

Trip’s story of coming to faith in Christ

The influence of church music on Tripp’s music

Musical and theological influences

Why Tripp decided to make a worship album

The intersection of culture and church

Why it can be challenging to partner together across racial and cultural lines

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

For Your Glory EP by Trip Lee & Brag Worship

Brag Worship

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #383: Making Worship Music That Doesn’t Sound Like Worship Music with Trip Lee appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

If you’re a worship leader, you plan services. It comes with the territory. It’s part of the job. Most of the time, that comes down to picking songs.

But what are we missing in our churches when service planning, programming, and worship leading is reduced to merely picking songs?

W. David O. Taylor is Associate Professor of Theology & Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary as well as the director of various initiatives in worship, theology and the arts. He teaches courses in systematic theology, art and worship, art and theology, art and beauty, spiritual formation through the psalms, and theology and science fiction. He is the author of the books Glimpses of The New Creation, Prayers for the Pilgrimage, A Body of Praise, Open & Unafraid, as well as the upcoming book To Set the World Aflame: How Artists Bear Witness to the Fullness of God’s Creation.

David is a deep well of wisdom when it comes to worship and the arts. What I love about this conversation is he helps us see more expansive view of what worship is and can be in the church.

We discuss why artists are necessary and how they help us see more of God. The value of silence in our gatherings. The kinds of songs we need to be singing today. Why the predominant worship model today isn’t wrong, but inadequate.

You can reach me anytime at [email protected]. Thank you for listening.

Topics Covered:

The difference between formation and experience in worship

Why our current model of worship experiences isn’t wrong, but inadequate

The value of silence in our gatherings

Why we need artists in the church

Creative ways to introduce silence, reflection, and community in our worship spaces

The kinds of songs the church needs to be singing today

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Glimpses of the New Creation by W. David O. Taylor

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #382: Uncommon & Creative Ways to Reimagine Your Worship Services with W. David O. Taylor appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

We are living in interesting times if you’re a Christian in America. Open social media for a second on any given day and you can see outrage on one side and celebration on the other for those who follow Jesus.

How are we supposed to navigate times like these?

What are we supposed to believe? How are we supposed to think? What should followers of Jesus do in times like this?

I don’t have all the answers, but I appreciate bold voices who help us make sense of the chaos. One of those voices is Brittany Packnett Cunningham.

Brittany is an activist, an educator, a writer, and a leader who spends her time at the intersection of culture, justice, and policy. She doesn’t just live in the realm of lofty ideas, but is actively working to make life better for the most vulnerable in society. Brittany is also a Christian.

In this conversation we talk about her faith journey. We share stories of my journey growing up in white evangelicalism and her first encounter with white evangelicalism.

We talk about what it means to follow Jesus today. How our faith should influence our voting and our politics. No matter what side of the political spectrum you are on, Brittany has something to teach us if we’re willing to listen.

This is David Santistevan and you can reach me anytime with questions, guest recommendations, complaints, or criticisms at [email protected]

As always, thank you so much for listening.

Topics Covered:

Brittany’s faith tradition growing up

The need for liberation theology and what it means for the local church

The importance of unlearning and contextualizing theology

Noticing how white supremacy undermines the prosperity of black people

The defunding of HBCUs and what that means for black thriving in America

What it means to be a red letter Christian

Politics and faith

The prophetic witness of the Black Church

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Brittany on Instagram

Brittany on Threads

Brittany’s Website

The Black Church in the African American Experience by C. Eric Lincoln & Lawrence H. Mamiya

Jesus And John Wayne by Kristen Kobes Du Mez

Podcast cover art photography: https://www.bepureblack.com/

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #381: Evangelicalism, Justice Work, And Red Letter Christianity with Brittany Packnett Cunningham appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

This is an episode for the ministry underdog. There are some unwritten, unhelpful rules about worship ministry and Christian music that we need to say out loud. You’re too old. Your voice isn’t strong enough. You’re too overweight. Your style isn’t what we’re going for. You can’t be the face of the ministry.

Of course, we don’t say these things out loud, most of the time. But it appears that too often our modus operandi is to be attractive and impressive, beautiful. How are we going to sell the most records? Who is going to draw people to our church? The longer we operate with these cultural values, the more we sideline great leaders and harm them in the process. I’m not advocating anyone could be a worship leader. Obviously, there are skill standards. But how far is too far when it comes to talent, image, beauty, and age? At what point have we abandoned kingdom values for profit, power, and influence?

Calvin Nowell is my guest today. Calvin is a songwriter, worship leader, and singer who has sung with many of the top names in Christian Music. Calvin also leads a diverse music collective called Aware Worship that is bringing awareness to the people side of ministry.

This is vulnerable conversation. We talk about the dark sides of the industry, stigma in ministry, supporting the underdog, and looking for Jesus on the margins. Tears were shed. The presence of God was felt. Trust me, you will be encouraged.

My name is David Santistevan. As always, thanks for listening. You can reach me anytime at [email protected].

Topics Covered:

Calvin’s journey as a worship leader

The reality of starting music later in life

Why we shouldn’t be afraid of frequent new songs

Why diversity is important

How the Christian music industry needs to change

Why God still has a plan for you

The struggle of weight and image as a worship leader

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Aware Worship

Instagram.com/calvinnowell

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #380: Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

It’s becoming almost a tradition that when I need to talk about something really difficult, I invite David Gate on the Podcast. David is a former worship leader, recording artist turned author who has a keen eye about what is happening in the world. And he’s not afraid to tell it like it is. David wrote an article recently called “The Soundtrack For American Fascism is Worship Music” – I know, pretty intense. But also not entirely hard to believe, if you’re paying attention.

In this conversation we talk about it – how worship music can be co-opted to serve anti-Christian political agendas. How easy it is for our Christianity to become enmeshed with our politics to the point where we can’t tell where one begins and the other ends. We look historically at how Hitler co-opted the music of Wagner to serve his political aims. How worship music can be manipulative in healthy and unhealthy ways. We talk about choosing songs and what to do if you’re tired of mainstream, popular worship music. The conversation ends with some music recommendations and thoughts on David’s creative process.

This is a difficult chat, but a great one. You’ll be uncomfortable frequently. You may disagree some. But I guarantee it will challenge your thinking and improve your ministry life if you allow it.

This is David Santistevan. You can email me any time at [email protected]. As always, thanks for listening.

Topics Covered:

When David first noticed the politicization of American worship music

What David liked and disliked about the worship industry, as an insider

The musician similarities and differences between worship music and Wagner

How Hitler co-opted Wagner to serve his political agenda

Why it’s not crazy to consider how worship music can serve authoritarian regimes

Paying attention to how worship music can manipulate a room

The difference between empathy and worship

Healthy and unhealthy triumphalism in church

Debrief of the Charlie Kirk memorial and what we can learn from it

Pro football/College football and racism

What to do if you can’t stomach singing popular worship music in church

A true definition of Christian persecution

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

David Gate

The Soundtrack For American Fascism is Worship Music by David Gate

A Rebellion of Care: Poems & Essays by David Gate

Nested in Tangles by Hannah Frances

Baby by Dijon

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #379: When Worship Gets Political with David Gate appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.