Edufuturists

In this episode, Ben and Steve sit down with Professor Sara de Freitas for an extended conversation following their meeting at the Brilliant Festival in Liverpool. It's a wide-ranging discussion about immersive learning, the bloated curriculum, serious games, assessment reform, and why the UK's response to AI in education has been so fractured.Sara is one of the few people to have led at every level of education. She's an international researcher in digital technologies who set up three research labs, including the Serious Games Institute at Coventry University. She's served as Deputy Vice Chancellor in both Australia and the UK, ran the largest school in the UK during lockdown (including a separate provision for excluded children), and is currently a governor at the University of Sunderland. In June 2024 she founded Waypoint, building immersive, co-designed classroom tools with teachers and partners including the UK Space Agency.We cover:- Why universities pivoted seamlessly during COVID while primary schools struggled, and what that reveals about infrastructure and mindset- The "bloated curriculum" problem: too much content, not enough time for skills, creativity, and group work- Serious games and game-based learning, from Sara's 2010 study to today's evidence base- Why data alone never changes minds, and the hearts-and-minds work every transformation needs- The false binary of rigour versus fun, and why good teachers refuse to choose- The generational split that made boards, not teachers, the real blockers to innovation- Why the UK's AI in education response is so inconsistent, and the strange logic of "students can use AI but teachers can't"- Sara's blended pedagogic model (learn, explore, apply, reflect) and the case for cutting curriculum by a third- Connecting primary, secondary, FE, and HE on one safe, shared backbone- Three quick-fire questions to close, including what would change if schools were judged like restaurantsWhy listen? If you're a teacher, school leader, or anyone working in EdTech and wondering how to move past the AI panic and the curriculum overload toward something genuinely better, this conversation offers both the research and the realism. Sara has lived every side of this debate, and she makes the case that meaningful change comes not from one giant leap but from everyone taking one small step forward.Chapters00:00 00:00 Highlights01:25 Intro and World Cup sticker chaos03:42 Meet Professor Sara de Freitas04:12 A career across schools, universities, and two continents08:34 The sea change in emerging technology09:33 COVID, resilience, and the primary school infrastructure gap14:00 The bloated curriculum and the case for a research council16:04 Has university really changed?23:18 Serious games: the research journey25:39 The 2010 study and why evidence isn't enough27:56 The generational split and boards as blockers31:12 Rigour versus fun: a false dichotomy35:13 Hearts, minds, and play-based learning37:09 Why the UK's AI response is so fractured39:00 Blended learning done properly40:43 The optimal blend and rethinking assessment42:57 AI in education and the shutters coming down45:46 Quick-fire questions50:28 Wrap-upThanks so much for joining us again for another episode - we appreciate you.Ben & Steve xRead the Research Report that Sara mentioned here
Order her latest book - Education in Computer Generated Environments (foreword by Sir Anthony Seldon) at Routledge or AmazonCheck out all about EdufuturistsWant to sponsor future episodes or get involved with the Edufuturists work?Get in touch:Get your tickets for Edufuturists Uprising 2026Grab your copy of the new Pick 'n' Mix Education book

In this episode of the Edufuturists podcast, it's just Ben and Steve in the studio for The Big Review Part 15, looking back over seven recent conversations and pulling out the threads that connect them. From leadership and wellbeing to AI, integrity and creativity, this is a fast tour through the ideas that defined the last review period, with plenty of prompts to send you back to the full episodes.Ben Whitaker and Steve Hope co-host the Edufuturists podcast and are the authors of the new book Pick 'n' Mix Education (Crown House Publishing). In this review they revisit conversations with headteacher and Calm Leadership author Patrick Cozier, Manhattan University dean and engineering researcher Kathryn Jablokow, SchoolAI's Rob Wessman, teacher wellbeing coach Charlie Burley, Apps for Good's Natalie Moore, Turnitin Chief Product Officer Annie Chechitelli, and creativity explorer and Book of Ideas author Fredrik Haren.We cover:- Why leadership is a human act first, and how Patrick Cozier's calm framework has sustained his longevity in headship- How AI can become a genuine team member rather than a replacement, and what it means to help AI think more like a human- The case that AI upskills rather than de-skills learners, including research on a reported boost in higher order reasoning- Why staff wellbeing is about intention, not a pizza on a Friday, and the role of sleep, food and balance- How young people can be empowered to create with technology for good, not just consume it- The shift in academic integrity from AI detection towards clarity, and why a human has to stay in the loop- Whether schools really kill creativity, and what curiosity, culture and context have to do with itWhy you should listenIf you lead a school, work in edtech, teach, or care about where education is heading, this review gives you seven big conversations distilled into one. It is a chance to spot the patterns, decide which full episodes are worth your time, and rethink some of the assumptions about AI, wellbeing and creativity that get repeated without question.Chapters00:00 Welcome and why we do review episodes01:24 Ep 340: Patrick Cozier on calm, human leadership04:19 Ep 341: Kathryn Jablokow on helping AI think like a human08:35 Ep 342: Rob Wessman on AI upskilling, not de-skilling14:00 Ep 343: Charlie Burley on why wellbeing isn't pizza22:38 Ep 344: Natalie Moore on doing good with technology29:00 Ep 345: Annie Chechitelli on integrity beyond AI detection34:43 Ep 346: Fredrik Haren on creativity, curiosity and culture38:40 Uprising 2026, the new book and what's nextThanks so much for joining us again for another episode - we appreciate you.Ben & Steve xWant to sponsor future episodes or get involved with the Edufuturists work?Get in touchGet your tickets for Edufuturists Uprising 2026Grab a copy of the brand new Pick 'n' Mix Education book

In this episode, Steve and Ben sit down with Fredrik Haren - the Creativity Explorer - for a conversation that's been months in the making. It's a wide-ranging, thought-provoking dive into what creativity really is, where it comes from, and why our assumptions about it might be completely wrong.Fredrik Haren has spent 25 years studying human creativity across the globe, visiting 15 to 35 countries a year, from North Korea to Silicon Valley, interviewing thousands of people across cultures, industries, and disciplines. He's the author of The Idea Book (250,000+ copies sold) and The World of Creativity, and defines himself not as an expert, but as an explorer.In this episode we cover:- Why Fredrik says schools don't kill creativity, parents do (and what that actually means)- The Icelandic word for "curious" that will change how you think about learning- What North Korea taught Fredrik about collective creativity and why "one + one = big one"- The hidden etymology of curiosity, creativity, and education and why words matter- The Montessori mindset shift that every teacher and parent needs to hear- Why ego is the enemy of your best ideas and how divine ideas work- The Japanese concept Kaitakusha (培拓者): cultivating the future, not just pioneering it- Fredrik's mother's single greatest piece of advice for raising creative children-Why "lifelong learning" has lost its meaning and what to say insteadWhy you should listenWhether you're a classroom teacher, school leader, EdTech professional, or parent, this episode challenges the narratives we've inherited about creativity, curiosity, and the purpose of education. Fredrik brings global perspective, etymology deep-dives, and genuinely surprising ideas that will make you rethink how you support learners and yourself.Chapters00:00 - Introduction & what's been happening this week02:07 - Meet Fredrik Haren: The Creativity Explorer04:45 - Do schools kill creativity? Fredrik pushes back on Sir Ken Robinson09:43 - The Icelandic word for curious: forvitten (that which comes before knowledge)11:43 - Creativity across cultures: Iceland, Bulgaria, North Korea and beyond16:00 - Collective creativity: why "one + one = big one"22:00 - The Idea Book: how Fredrik sold 250,000 copies by selling stationery28:35 - How the world improves when people reach their creative potential33:45 - The difference between an expert and an explorer36:21 - Ego, divine ideas, and the etymology of creativity41:02 - "Never give the answer" - the best parenting advice Fredrik ever received45:31 - Kaitakusha: the Japanese concept of cultivating the future47:50 - Quickfire Questions🔗 Find Fredrik Haren: search "Fredrik Haren" or "The Creativity Explorer"📖 The Idea Book & The World of Creativity — available now Check out all about EdufuturistsWant to sponsor future episodes or get involved with the Edufuturists work?Get in touchGet your tickets for Edufuturists Uprising 2026

In this episode, we sit down with Annie Chechitelli, Chief Product Officer at Turnitin, to unpack one of education's most urgent tensions: how do you preserve genuine learning in an age where AI can write a passable essay in seconds? We go beyond the detector-versus-cheater framing to ask what assessment, academic integrity, and the role of the teacher actually need to look like now.
Annie Chechitelli is Chief Product Officer at Turnitin and has spent over 25 years in education technology - from building live online classrooms before Zoom existed, through roles at Blackboard and Amazon, to leading product at Turnitin for the past four years. She's one of the few people who has watched AI go from a quiet API curiosity to a classroom crisis in real time.

We cover:
- Why Turnitin shifted from detecting cheating to giving educators clarity on how students use AI
- The move from summative to formative assessment and what it demands of teachers
- How oral assessments, AI simulations, and peer feedback could replace the traditional essay
- What it means that 13% of papers submitted globally contain 80% or more AI-generated content
- Why Nature Magazine just retracted a major study claiming AI is good for learning
- The cognitive shortcut question: what parts of thinking can students safely offload to AI, and what can they not?
- Whether "AI literacy" is a meaningful term or just marketing language
- Why institutional policy decisions keep going wrong when educators aren't in the room
If you're a teacher trying to figure out where AI fits in your classroom, a leader shaping institutional policy, or someone who wants an honest conversation about what AI is actually doing to learning, this episode cuts through the noise. Annie doesn't arrive with neat answers. She brings the data, the hard questions, and a genuine commitment to getting this right for students.
Chapters
00:00 Introductions
02:04 Meet Annie Chechitelli, CPO of Turnitin
03:29 25 years in EdTech from Wimba to Amazon to Turnitin
07:04 Why Annie bet on education technology in 1999
09:31 What is Turnitin? A plain-language explainer
14:24 Essay mills, contract cheating, and the misconduct economy
17:12 AI and the shortcut to thinking
23:55 Who does Turnitin design for: teachers, students, or admins?
27:05 How assessment needs to change in the AI era
31:21 Oral defence, AI simulations, and peer feedback at scale
36:50 Why the UK is doubling down on exams
39:23 From AI detection to Turnitin Clarity
44:25 Who decides what counts as misconduct?
48:31 The research gap nobody is filling
52:34 Nature Magazine retracts its AI learning study
54:40 Is "AI literacy" a real term?
58:35 Quick-fire questions
Find out more about Turnitin Clarity
Thanks so much for joining us again for another episode - we appreciate you.
Ben & Steve x
Championing those who are making the future of education a reality.
Check out all about Edufuturists
Get your tickets for Edufuturists Uprising 2026

Are we teaching young people to consume technology - or to change the world with it?In this episode, Ben and Steve sit down with Natalie Moore, CEO of Apps for Good, to explore what it really means to put young people in the driving seat of their own learning - and their own futures.
From a council estate in East London to the London 2012 Olympics, and now leading one of the UK's most impactful edtech charities, Natalie brings a grounded, honest perspective on what education could look like when we trust young people to solve the problems that matter to them.Natalie is CEO of Apps for Good, a UK education technology charity that helps young people tackle real-world problems and build meaningful tech solutions.
With 13 years at the organisation - and the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Organising Committee on her CV - she brings rare insight into impact-driven education, digital skills, and what it genuinely means to do good.
In this episode we cover:
- Why Apps for Good was born out of work tackling digital exclusion in Brazilian favelas and what that means for UK classrooms today
- How AI is reshaping the Apps for Good curriculum, including a new "vibe coding" pathway and what responsible AI literacy looks like for young people
- The philosophy behind "apps for good" - why agency, purpose, and real-world relevance are more powerful than any curriculum mandate
- How project-based learning engages the students most likely to be switched off, including girls in STEM and young people from underrepresented backgrounds
- The annual Apps for Good Showcase - a Dragon's Den-style pitch event reviewed by volunteers from Google, Spotify, Sony and more
- Real impact stories: from a cattle management app built by Scottish farming kids to alumni now working at the Lego Group and Sony\
If you work in education, edtech, or youth development and you're wondering how to make technology genuinely meaningful - not just functional - for young people, this episode is essential. Natalie cuts through the AI hype to get at something deeper: what happens when young people aren't just users of technology, but creators solving problems they actually care about. Whether you're a teacher, school leader, or organisation trying to have real impact, this conversation will challenge you and inspire you in equal measure.
Chapters
00:00 – Welcome & introductions
01:44 – Natalie's background
04:58 – How Apps for Good came about and what it does
10:14 – Moving young people from consumers to creators
12:26 – Has AI changed everything or just the tools?
15:02 – Vibe coding, AI literacy, and the new curriculum pathway
17:29 – What does "for good" actually mean?
20:28 – Reaching underrepresented young people and the challenge of scale
24:40 – Agency in the classroom: do students really want to be spoon-fed?
29:03 – Critical thinking, AI bias, and why young people need both
32:58 – What is project-based learning and why does it work?
35:57 – Impact data: skills, confidence, and alumni stories
41:03 – The Apps for Good Annual Showcase
43:13 – Quickfire Questions

Voting for the People's Choice Award will open on Monday, 15th June. Have a look at their showcase here
They are building an expression of interest list for their brand new AI for Good 2.0 course, launching late Summer ahead of the 2026/27 academic year. Listeners can complete this short form to be the first to see it
If you want to learn more or connect, please visit here or reach out on email.
They are shortlisted at Edufuturists Uprising 2026 - join us in Liverpool on 25th June to celebrate them and other incredible organisations making a differenceUprising is now CPD accredited!Subscribe to the Edufuturists podcast for weekly conversations with the people reshaping education.