The Better Man Podcast

Our world has become too shackled into "black and white" thinking. 
 
When something is considered "good," the negative trade-offs are ignored and neglected. When something is considered "bad," the good is disregarded and the baby gets tossed out with the bath water.
 
But the reality is that there's a lot more gray areas than we think. This is particularly true with charged topics like the differences between male and female, between masculinity and femininity. 
 
The truth rarely exists on the extremes. Both sides of an argument have positive and negative aspects to think deeply about. And absorbing an entire belief system while disregarding the "other side" can lead to real disconnection in your relationships and with yourself. 
 
Today's guest, Rafe Kelley (founder of Evolve Move Play), has lived out the consequences of falling into extreme camps. It caused a serious rupture in his marriage. But it's also taught him a valuable lesson: 
 
How to take the good from bad belief systems, separate the bad from good belief systems, and create your own Bespoke Belief System that's unique to you and serves your highest self. 
 
I encourage you to listen to this episode in its entirety. It is a heavily nuanced discussion of some of the hottest cultural topics and it may challenge some of your beliefs. You might feel yourself get pulled into the "cognitive miser" trap that Rafe mentions at the beginning of this episode. 
 
But if you listen with an open mind, you'll get as much from this episode as I did. 
 
Here's what Rafe and I discuss:
 
The differences between men and women (and why losing our sexual polarity is harmful to everyone)

How belief systems based on truth are surrounded by a foundation of falsehoods

Why considering beliefs from people you disagree with instead of throwing out anything not in your "camp" is one of the best ways to protect your closest relationships

 
And more, including… 
 
The danger of falling into traps placed by "cognitive misers" that can mess up your entire belief system (and why a Bespoke Belief System shields you from this) (3:23) 

Why do vegans become carnivore people? And how this ideological trap applies to every social media hot button (6:28) 

The fundamental problem in society and how we can answer this delicate question responsibly (12:44) 

Why does sexuality create so much guilt, shame, and trauma? (And the bizarre role played by living in a society based on Christian values) (21:25) 

How we inherited a shame-based relationship with sexuality from the Middle Ages (and why it still exists today) (27:24)  

Why misunderstanding the role males and females play leads to frustration in relationship and could even lead to divorce (41:31) 

How ideological groups take a grain of truth then encode a false belief system around that seed (and how this wrecked Rafe's marriage) (50:17)  

The overlooked negative trade-offs that naturally arise when we treat men and women as the same (and why respecting the differences means seeing differences as complimentary and not about superiority or inferiority) (59:42)  

 
Guest Bio: 
 
Rafe Kelley, founder of Evolve Move Play, pioneers a unique movement philosophy, merging parkour with martial arts and a deep connection to nature, fostering a holistic wisdom practice. With over two decades of teaching experience, he offers transformative retreats, workshops, and online courses worldwide. His work emphasizes the synergy between body, psyche, and environment, inviting exploration of personal potential and the sacred in movement.
 
Resources mentioned in this episode: 
 
1. Rediscover your true nature through movement, play, and connection on Rafe's website here: https://www.evolvemoveplay.com/
 
2. Join Rafe's free online forum at: https://coaching.evolvemoveplay.com 
 
3. Follow Rafe on social media below: 
 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/rafekelley 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/evolve.move.play/ 
 
4. Man Flow Yoga Events: Find the full list of cities we're coming to here: https://manflowyoga.com/man-flow-yoga-events/ 
 
5. Man Flow Yoga: Haven't signed up yet? Start your 7-day free trial and see how yoga can eliminate aches and pains better than other types of exercise here: https://shrtlnk.co/kP8M7

There are a lot of ways that fathers get in their own way of being a great parent. Sometimes it wears the mask of "self-improvement." Sometimes it gamifies your presence. And sometimes, it's a desire to overcorrect your parents' mistakes.
 
In many ways, it's much harder to be a father today than ever before too. 
 
Gender roles are more fluid than they were in previous generations (but there's still value in distinguishing gender roles). Fathers are forced to feel through their feelings when it comes more naturally to think through them. And balancing the climate of your home, the relationship with your partner, and your responsibilities at work can lead to burnout. 
 
That's why I was personally excited for today's follow-up discussion with Boys Will Be Men author and therapist and fellow father, Vince Benevento. 
 
Vince answers all my toughest questions around:
 
The Gentle Strength method to become a stronger, and gentler, parent 

How to be better at accepting yourself as you are today instead of who you'll become after hitting another milestone 

How to better divvy up the balance of traditional and modern gender roles to best benefit your entire home 

 
And more, including… 
 
Why modern fathers have unique challenges previous generations didn't have (and how to better balance your responsibilities without burning out) (4:28) 

How your tone, anxiety, and sense of urgency seeps into your climate at home even when it originates from work (6:38) 

The insidious "Destination Mindset Trap" that stifles your presence when parenting (7:15) 

Why men in particular are prone to gamifying being present (and why you might be blinded to how this interrupts presence) (9:25) 

The best thing you can do if you have too much free time that will show you why you're more isolated than you acknowledge (11:43)  

The real reason workaholics struggle in relationships that precedes working long hours and doing fulfilling work (17:25) 

Why new parents have a tendency to overcorrect their parents' mistakes (and why this overcorrection backfires) (27:47) 

Why the word "self-improvement" is a sneaky way you hold yourself back (40:44) 

3 characteristics of "Gentle Strength" that make you a better parent in your children's eyes (even after you've drifted apart from your kid) (42:00) 

 
Guest Bio: 
 
Vince Benevento is the Director and Founder of Causeway Collaborative, leading and providing direct service for all three specialized teams. A licensed professional counselor, he holds a BA in Psychology from Wesleyan University and an MA in School Counseling from Fairfield University.
 
Vince began his career as an in-home therapist for adolescents and families at the Wheeler Clinic in Plainville, Connecticut, a regional behavioral health services provider. From there, he entered the corporate world, where he worked as a professional recruiter and honed his career-counseling skills. With this valuable experience under his belt, Vince transitioned back to individual and community-based counseling as an employment specialist for the Kennedy Center, one of Connecticut's largest and most highly regarded community organizations. At the Kennedy Center, Vince worked to find meaningful jobs for unemployed adults with psychiatric diagnoses and criminal histories. He joined Freudigman & Billings in 2010 as an educational therapist and completed a year-long internship in the Weston High School guidance department, where he initiated and co-led weekly support groups for at-risk-students. In 2012, Vince brought his skills and experiences together to start Causeway Collaborative.
 
Vince's work experience, whether in the corporate world or in counseling, is united by a single purpose: to help students, young professionals, and those who are struggling to plan for the future and to realize their potential.
 
Vince recently published the book, Boys Will Be Men: 8 Lessons for the Lost American Male too. 
 
Resources mentioned in this episode: 
 
1. Buy Vince's book, Boys Will Be Men: 8 Lessons for the Lost American Male on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Boys-Will-Be-Men-American/dp/1959170317 
 
2. Follow Vince on Instagram: @vince_benevento_LPC
 
3. Visit Vince's company, Causeway Collaborative, here: http://www.causewaycollaborative.com/ 
 
4. Or, check out Vince's personal website (for speaking and coaching) here: https://www.sharperformen.com/ 
 
5. Man Flow Yoga Events: Find the full list of cities we're coming to here: https://manflowyoga.com/man-flow-yoga-events/ 
 
6. Man Flow Yoga: Haven't signed up yet? Start your 7-day free trial and see how yoga can eliminate aches and pains better than other types of exercise here: https://shrtlnk.co/kP8M7

Despite what your mind visualizes when you're thinking about your fitness and health journey, reality is never as picture perfect. 
 
You'll have various setbacks that threaten your confidence. You might struggle with mental health issues that ruin your consistency. And you might even go years without progressing towards a healthier, happier, and leaner version of yourself. 
 
And you know what?
 
This happens to everyone, including former fitness professionals like today's guest, Man Flow Yoga Member Alan. 
 
Alan started his career in the fitness industry as a gym manager and group fitness instructor. 
 
But after spending a few years climbing the ranks of the gym and putting his body into what he thought was the best shape its been in, life threw Alan a wicked curveball: 
 
He suffered a mini-stroke! 
 
You would think that a mini-stroke would force Alan to take his health even more seriously, but it actually caused him to fall off the wagon. Shortly after, he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, ADHD, and chronic depression - something he struggled with his entire life, but was only diagnosed with as an adult. 
 
Alan didn't let this defeat him. Instead, he realized that a perfect fitness journey didn't exist, and started building his health and fitness back brick-by-brick. He started walking, then rowing, and then in October 2024 his journey took a quantum leap: 
 
He joined Man Flow Yoga, which caused a snowball effect to his health and fitness. Today, he's stronger, happier, more resistant, and healthier than at any other point in his life. 
 
His story shows you that your fitness journey will be full of peaks and valleys. And that the only way to fail is to give up completely. 
 
Here's what Alan and I discuss: 
 
How Alan utilized different medications to keep himself grounded when his mental health swayed 

Why overthinking is the #1 threat to your health journey

How to be okay with the ebbs and flows of your health journey (so one mistake or misstep doesn't cancel out years of progress) 

 
And more, including… 
 
How Alan suffered a TIA (a mini-stroke) when he thought he was at the fittest of his life (3:33) 

Why overthinking can sabotage your health journey (even after beating a major health complication) (6:36) 

The best type of journaling to try if you have a bipolar disorder diagnosis (22:22) 

Think you're "bad" at something? Use the power of "yet" to instantly make progress (22:32)

How to borrow motivational energy from your family when you're too depressed to exercise for yourself (25:50) 

Why Man Flow Yoga enabled Alan, a former group fitness coach, to prioritize his health when HIIT, strength training, pilates, walking, and rowing didn't (33:33) 

Going through a seismic career change? Alan shares why Man Flow Yoga can help save you from drowning in new stress (39:21) 

Why relying on "negative motivation," while it can be helpful when you're starting, becomes a trap that keeps you stuck (and how to transmorph it into positive motivation) (43:58) 

The #1 overlooked reason behind why it's easier to be consistent with Man Flow Yoga compared to any other type of fitness modality (45:22)

 
Resources mentioned in this episode: 
 
1. Man Flow Yoga Events: Alan credits the 2025 DC event as a pivotal step on his journey. If you want to come to a 2026 in-person event, find the full list of cities we're coming to here: https://manflowyoga.com/man-flow-yoga-events/ 
 
2. Man Flow Yoga: For Alan, Man Flow Yoga was the ONLY fitness modality that made him prioritize his health when HIIT, strength training, pilates, walking, and rowing didn't. 
 
What if you're the same? 
 
There's only one way to find out: 
 
Start your 7-day free trial and see why Man Flow Yoga works where other fitness modalities fail: https://shrtlnk.co/kP8M7

If you're not training your mind, then someone else is training it for you. 
Without your awareness, knowledge, or consent. And you only notice how deeply entrenched your conditioning when shit hits the fan. 
 
Mark Divine (retired Navy SEAL Commander, best-selling author, and CEO of SEALFIT and Unbeatable Mind) returns to the Better Man podcast for a beautiful example of showing courageous vulnerability in today's show. 
 
Because despite writing five books on mental and emotional health… 
 
Despite being a retired Navy SEAL Commander and successfully founding multiple companies… 
 
And despite having perhaps the most intense morning routine you'll ever hear about… 
 
… shit still hit the fan for Mark, which reminds us that perfection isn't possible and to never get complacent. 
 
Mark's one of my favorite guests. And you'll see why when you listen to this show. 
 
Here's what Mark and I discuss: 
 
Mark's exact 4-hour long morning routine (and the "shit hit the fan" story behind why Mark makes it so intense) 

How to start a mental strength practice and use it to improve your emotional intelligence and resilience 

How to bounce back after going through major setbacks without losing yourself

 
And more, including… 
 
Why Zen monks break a sweat when they meditate - and easy-to-follow steps for beginners to train your mind to concentrate (2:58) 

The "barbell curls for your brain" mindset shift that makes you look forward to meditation (even if you suck at it) (5:25) 

How to train your mind like a Navy SEAL (and why you must rewire your brain or someone else will) (15:27) 

Why training your mind to become "One Mind" allows you to perceive more than others think possible, to create with almost unlimited potential, and to stay young for as long as you need (19:21) 

A simple practicing mistake almost all men make when trying to learn something new (23:28) 

How gamifying your goals hijacks your mind and practically forces you to achieve them (24:52) 

How to tap into a river of consciousness dating back thousands of years and "borrow" its energy by repeating ancient mantras (33:40) 

Why the best way to "rewrite" memories of your past is to create memories of your future (44:20) 

An extreme real life example of the imminent danger posed to and others by letting your emotions drive your actions (52:03) 

Why doing the work Mark describes in this episode, work that can change your life in ways you can't even imagine right now, won't make you perfect (1:00:51) 

 
Guest Bio:
 
Dr. Mark Divine|PHD is a retired Navy SEAL Commander, New York Times Best-Selling Author, Founder / CEO of SEALFIT and Unbeatable Mind, founder of multiple million-dollar businesses, lifetime Martial Artist, Ashtanga Yoga teacher, and host of the Unbeatable Mind podcast (recently rated #1 health podcast and #30 overall on itunes).
 
The U.S. Navy selected him to create a nationwide leadership and mental-performance program for the SEALs, designed to help elite teams excel under extreme stress.
 
Resources mentioned in this episode: 
 
1. Find Mark's programs, coaching, books, and podcast on his site here: https://markdivine.com/ 
 
2. Man Flow Yoga Events: We just announced new locations for 2026 in-person events. Find the full list of cities we're coming to here: https://manflowyoga.com/man-flow-yoga-events/ 
 
3. Man Flow Yoga: Haven't signed up yet? Start your 7-day free trial and see how yoga can eliminate aches and pains better than other types of exercise here: https://shrtlnk.co/kP8M7

Today's guest, Emmy-winning meteorologist turned podcast host and productivity coach, Ted Phaeton, knew something was missing in his life. 
 
He had a great career. 
 
He got the recognition he craved. 
 
But he didn't have true autonomy and freedom and it was eating at him. 
 
Ted realized he became too attached to his identity as a meteorologist. Meteorology wasn't his only skill. He's also honed and mastered a productivity system that led to winning an Emmy in meteorology without missing his kid's games. 
 
Ted also knew that most men live lives of quiet desperation. He knew there was a male loneliness epidemic sweeping across the country. And he knew the wicked cycle (which comes natural to men) of how loneliness leads to taking on too much which leads to overwhelm and further isolation. 
 
Ted wanted to help these men connect with other men like them. And so, he created new identities that he could lean on for wisdom. 
 
The result? 
 
He started The Modern Man Podcast and became a productivity and time mastery coach.  
 
This episode is packed with helpful tips about creating a more fulfilling life, getting more done in less time (so you can spend more time on the important things in life like family), and how to radically change your internal dialogue and get out of your own way. 
 
Listen now. 
 
Here's what Ted and I discuss: 
 
Why removing "discipline" from your vocabulary can make you consistent almost overnight 

How to "visit" the little version of you to get clearer on your life mission

Plus, Ted shares some of his most effective and useful time mastery and productivity hacks 

 
And more, including… 
 
How to elevate your capacity to hold life and virtually eliminate drowning in overwhelm (4:09) 

How to "sit in" multiple identities and pull wisdom from the most relevant one instead of being chained to a single one (6:51) 

Why time blocking has been the most effective way for Ted to feel more present (try it if you also struggle to be in the moment) (14:19) 

The "Tools of Time" secret that allows you to better bend time to your will (23:14) 

How to start time blocking without whiteknuckling your calendar, getting overwhelmed, and quitting before it creates more time in your day (24:47) 

How a "Should Detox" frees you from the mental burden of your internal dialogue and creates more time in your day to do the things you want (26:13) 

The "Value Connection" trick that rewires your thinking patterns and creates motivation out of thin air by swapping a few words (26:55) 

Why reducing friction (instead of beating yourself up with discipline) is a more successful long-term strategy for doing hard things that are easy to skip (32:06) 

The "Habit Stack" method that makes building healthier habits so simple that your brain might immediately disregard it (but if you try it, you'll agree) (35:13) 

Why the 10,000 hour rule popularized by Malcolm Gladwell has silently crushed more men's spirit and drive than perhaps any other idea (38:20)  

 
Guest Bio:
 
Ted Phaëton is an Emmy Award-winning broadcaster and host of The Modern Man, a top 2% globally ranked podcast dedicated to helping men unlock their full potential. As a performance architect, he specializes in the Ops Audit, helping high-achieving entrepreneurs and leaders implement the Optimized Performance Systems required to master their time and scale their impact. Ted provides the proven frameworks and discipline necessary for men to lead with purpose and reclaim their freedom.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
 
1. The Modern Man Podcast: If you liked what Ted was putting down in today's episode, head to his website to listen to The Modern Man Podcast he hosts and the Noble Knights men's group he leads: https://TheModernManPodcast.com 
 
2. Man Flow Yoga Events: We just announced new locations for 2026 in-person events. Find the full list of cities we're coming to here: https://manflowyoga.com/man-flow-yoga-events/ 
 
3. Man Flow Yoga: Haven't signed up yet? Start your 7-day free trial and see how yoga can eliminate aches and pains better than other types of exercise here: https://shrtlnk.co/kP8M7