The Edge Podcast

David Choi and Conor Moore are CoFounders of Permian Labs, the builders behind USDai.
AI infrastructure is projecting trillions of dollars in CapEx spend, but there's a problem: traditional finance can't keep up. Banks move too slow. Private credit funds can't scale. The most important commodity in the world has no liquid debt market.
USDai is filling this gap by financing AI infrastructure with GPU-backed loans, offering stablecoin depositors 10-15% APR. David and Conor break down how they're using DeFi rails and tokenization to create liquid debt markets for GPUs, enabling institutional borrowers to access capital and retail users to earn yield on productive AI infrastructure.
In this episode, we cover:
+ Why trillions in AI CapEx can't get traditional financing
+ How USDAI structures loans against GPUs, not businesses
+ Why this could become "the interest rate of artificial intelligence"
+ Their two-token model: USDai vs. sUSDai
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield

🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

🏦 MANTLE | MNT is now live on Solana

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:45 - Founders background from NFT lending to AI infra
5:52 - “The more you know the price, the less money you make”
8:51 - The AI infrastructure financing gap, trillions in CapEx, no capital
15:22 - What is structured credit and why does it matter?
19:33 - How USDai GPU-backed loans work
24:54 - Addressing the Pine Analytics critique: Lagging utilization
34:13 - Why AI infra borrowers can use crypto rails
36:00 - Real-time GPU monitoring with Chainlink oracles
36:51 - “Mercenary capital” vs common sense capital
39:14 - Why launch the token before full PMF?
42:34 - Are USDai borrowers riskier to lend to?
45:26 - Warehouse receipts and UCC 12: How USDai tokenizes GPUs
50:58 - Managing GPU depreciation risk
53:28 - What keeps the founders up at night
54:05 - USDai vs. sUSDai, the two-token model explained
58:25 - The CHIP governance token
59:10 - What’s next: The road to $1B in loans
1:00:21 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► USDai website: https://usd.ai/
► USDai on X: https://x.com/USDai_Official
► David Choi on X: https://x.com/0xZergs
► Conor Moore on X: https://x.com/_ConorMoore
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Benjamin is the Founder of Cap and DeFi Dave is the Founding Head of Growth.
Token launches are broken. Founders pay exchanges 5-10% of supply, airdrop to farmers who dump immediately, and wonder why everything goes to zero. Benjamin calls it "the conveyor belt to death." Cap is breaking the playbook: no CEX listing fees, no token airdrops, and no TVL deals paid in tokens. Instead, they're doing the first-ever Stabledrop—$12 million in stablecoins to early supporters, funded by their upcoming ICO on Uniswap.
In this episode, we cover:
+ Why the status quo token launch playbook leads to death
+ The Stabledrop: How $12M in stablecoins rewards early users
+ Cap's three rules: No airdrops, no CEX fees, no token TVL deals
+ ICO mechanics on Uniswap and who's eligible
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS
🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield

🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

🏦 MANTLE | MNT is now live on Solana

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:34 - Breaking the playbook: Cap's three fundamental rules
15:54 - What is Cap and how it works?
16:49 - The Stabledrop: Airdrops reimagined with stablecoins
18:17 - How founders and the community responded
19:24 - How is the Stabledrop calculated?
25:06 - Homestead Program: Double points in first month
27:21 - How the $12M Cap Stabledrop works
29:44 - CAP ICO mechanics: How the Uniswap sale works Feb 9th
35:50 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Cap website: https://cap.app/
► Official Cap Stabledrop details announced: https://x.com/capmoney_/status/2019079426823303371?s=20
► Cap on X: https://x.com/capmoney_
► Cap Labs Limited on X: https://x.com/caplabslimited
► Benjamin on X: https://x.com/Benjamin918_
► DeFi Dave on X: https://x.com/defidave22
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
------
DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad and Nomatic invested in the Cap seed round.

Grant is the Founder & CEO of Blocmates, and 563 is Head of Research.
Crypto is winning, but tokens aren't. Headlines that would have pumped markets 30-40% in 2021 barely move prices today. There's a massive disconnect between fundamentals and price action--record adoption, institutional integration, real-world use cases, yet token prices are bleeding. Grant and 563 break down why this paradox exists, where the industry goes from here, and what actually matters this year in their newly published Blocmates 2026 Thesis.
In this episode:
+ The paradox: Why fundamentals are up but token prices are down
+ Token distribution and fixing tokenholder rights for real ownership
+ Why we don't need more L1s and what wins: distribution or innovation
+ ZK as the unlock for Ethereum scaling and new on-chain products
+ Where Blocmates is deploying capital in 2026
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS
♉︎ TOROS | Exponential gains with leveraged tokens

🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield

🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

🔊 DECIBEL | The new sound of trading

🥞 SYRUPUSDC BY MAPLE | DeFi's premium yield asset

🏦 MANTLE | Innovating the future of onchain finance

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:40 - Blocmates 2026 thesis overview
4:37 - Crypto is winning, tokens aren’t, the paradox explained
16:53 - The token distribution problem: founders vs. community expectations
21:06 - Why we don't need more general-purpose chains
23:41 - Distribution vs. innovation: What wins in 2026?
29:45 - Will TradFi rebuild, acquire, or partner with DeFi?
34:28 - Fixing tokenholder rights: Tokens as real ownership
41:29 - x402 is the start of something big
45:32 - How ZK unlocks Ethereum scaling and new onchain products
53:06 - Why demand for onchain privacy is coming
56:33 - Could RWAs become the most traded assets onchain?
1:00:18 - Why regulation could be crypto's biggest catalyst
1:03:20 - Where Blocmates is deploying capital in 2026
1:06:56 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Blocmates website: https://blocmates.com/
► Blocmates on X: https://x.com/blocmates
► Grant on X: https://x.com/Grantblocmates
► 563 on X: https://x.com/563defi
► The Blocmates 2026 Thesis: https://www.blocmates.com/articles/the-blocmates-2026-thesis
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
------
DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Sun Raghupathi is CoFounder and CEO of Veda.
DeFi is living through interesting times: record adoption, proven infrastructure, institutional interest—but low sentiment and struggling token prices. Sun calls this "the enterprise era for DeFi," where protocols that don't have a B2B strategy for the largest financial institutions may not survive. But here's the opportunity: for the first time, DeFi is actually ready for mainstream users. In fact, Kraken just launched new DeFi Earn vaults powered by Veda, giving millions of users instant access to onchain yields without leaving the Kraken app.
In this episode, we cover:
+ DeFi's enormous future in enterprise partnerships and distribution
+ How Veda vaults work: custody, risk management, and yield strategies
+ Breaking down Kraken's new DeFi Earn vaults
+ Veda's business model and path to profitability
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS
♉︎ TOROS | Exponential gains with leveraged tokens

🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield

🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

🔊 DECIBEL | The new sound of trading

🥞 SYRUPUSDC BY MAPLE | DeFi's premium yield asset

🏦 MANTLE | Innovating the future of onchain finance

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:52 - DeFi’s identity crisis, record adoption vs sentiment
5:35 - The value capture question, DeFi protocols or institutions?
6:47 - Will businesses build or partner?
12:15 - Enterprise DeFi predictions for 2026
15:05 - What are vaults and why does DeFi need them?
17:35 - Not all vaults are created equally
21:36 - Veda's evolution from ether.fi to enterprise vaults
27:16 - Breaking down Kraken DeFi Earn, powered by Veda
29:33 - Kraken DeFi Earn vault details
38:21 - Human vs. AI curation for DeFi vaults
40:36 - Integrating AI into Veda's vault system
42:22 - What institutions need from Veda
43:52 - Veda’s business model and path to profitability
47:24 - Veda’s partners: ether.fi, Plasma, Mantle, and more
49:29 - Will there be a VEDA token?
50:02 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Veda website: https://veda.tech/
► Veda on X: https://x.com/veda_labs
► Sun Raghupathi on X: https://x.com/sunandr_
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
------
DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad invested in the seed round for Veda.

TN Lee is CoFounder and CEO of Pendle.
Pendle generates revenue through two streams: YT fees (5% of all yield and points accrued) and swap fees from PT trading activity. The protocol settled $45 billion in value for PT holders in just 2025, nearly doubling revenue YoY as TVL grew from $6.9B to $13.4B. But the real story for 2026 is Boros, Pendle's new rates trading platform that's already hit $200M in open interest and is positioning itself as infrastructure for the explosive growth in onchain RWA and equity perps.
In this episode of Revenue Meta, we cover:
+ Pendle's dual revenue model
+ Why vePENDLE is being replaced with sPENDLE
+ How Boros enables traders to hedge funding rate risk on CEX/DEX perps
+ 2026 growth strategy: RWAs, institutional adoption, and rates trading at scale
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS
♉︎ TOROS | Exponential gains with leveraged tokens

🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield

🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

🔊 DECIBEL | The new sound of trading

🥞 SYRUPUSDC BY MAPLE | DeFi's premium yield asset

🏦 MANTLE | Innovating the future of onchain finance

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:40 - What are Pendle V2 and Boros?
5:58 - YoY growth in 2025
8:40 - Pendle's dual revenue model, swap fees and YT fees
9:42 - TVL vs volume as drivers for revenue
11:18 - $45B in value settled for PT holders
12:42 - The October 10th flash crash and its impact
17:05 - Why the vePENDLE model needed to change
23:49 - Introducing sPENDLE
31:16 - The team behind Pendle
33:44 - Pendle's target customers in 2026
35:42 - Growth strategy and goals for 2026
41:51 - Key trends for 2026: RWAs, rates trading, and equity perps
45:20 - How traders use Boros to hedge funding rate risk
48:50 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Pendle website: https://pendle.finance/
► Boros website: https://boros.pendle.finance/markets
► Pendle on X: https://x.com/pendle_fi
► Boros on X: https://x.com/boros_fi
► TN Lee on X: https://x.com/tn_pendle
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
------
DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.