The Edge Podcast

Andy Cavanaugh and Robbie Klages are CoFounders and Hosts at The Rollup.
Could a “hated rally” fuel crypto’s next leg? Andy and Robbie say crypto prices can climb while public sentiment stays hostile.
Recorded the day after the 2026 U.S. midterm elections, Andy and Robbie join us to react to the results and the historic $6B Binance hack, discuss what it all means for crypto markets, and walk through how they’re positioning for the next leg of the market cycle.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏦 AXIS | The Origin Vault launched on Ethereum

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

♾️ INFINIT | Institutional-grade trading vaults, built onchain

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

💰 SAFFRON FINANCE | A fixed yield layer built on Uniswap

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:31 - Why Robbie expects crypto to lead equities
4:14 - AI headwinds, but why Andy’s fully allocated
6:35 - Is crypto now bipartisan?
9:33 - Could crypto rise if equities stall?
12:02 - The Binance hack and why markets shook it off
16:55 - Tokenization super-cycle, 3 setups, and concentrated bets
27:11 - If you rebuilt your portfolio today, what would you buy?
33:25 - Betting on category winners vs going down the risk curve
39:53 - Crypto equities, DATs, and betting on founders
48:11 - Investing in liquid tokens vs pre-token private markets
51:16 - Regulatory certainty and the end of the disbelief phase
56:20 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► The Rollup website: https://therollup.co/
► The Rollup on X: https://x.com/therollupco
► Andy on X: https://x.com/andyyy
► Robbie on X: https://x.com/robbieklages
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast, including BTC, ETH, ZEC, HYPE, and other tokens.

Mathieu Baril is the CoFounder and CEO of Octav Labs.
How does someone who tests new protocols daily as part of his job actually invest onchain? In this episode, Mathieu shares all the his latest strategies onchain, including how he hedges Uniswap LPs with options, why tokenized stocks and Robinhood Chain caught his attention, how he uses LP fees to take profit, and the tokens he’s holding and watching.
Hear from one of the most advanced DeFi investors in the game!
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏦 AXIS | The Origin Vault launched on Ethereum

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

♾️ INFINIT | Institutional-grade trading vaults, built onchain

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

💰 SAFFRON FINANCE | A fixed yield layer built on Uniswap

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:11 - From Bitcoin mining to DeFi Summer
6:34 - How Octav offers early signal on new protocols
8:53 - What new DeFi is most exciting right now?
16:41 - How Mathieu earned huge LP returns on Robinhood Chain
20:57 - The impressive thing about Robinhood using USDG
22:32 - How to hedge Uniswap LP positions with options
27:02 - Why Mathieu reallocated from Base to Robinhood Chain
28:13 - Hyperliquid, Kinetiq, and why Elysium is interesting
32:19 - Mathieu’s ideas for managing longs over the next 12 months
40:23 - Are crypto FDV multiples out of line with TradFi?
42:22 - Why ETH is a store of value, plus his top 3 liquid positions
46:46 - Mathieu’s shopping list: VVV, DIME, and other options tokens
48:36 - Mathieu’s DIME/Paradex bull thesis explained
52:38 - What is Tacticalls? A social copy trading platform for options
57:06 - Screenshare demo of Tacticalls
1:03:13 - Octav demo: Tracking any wallet with AI insights
1:11:00 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Octav website: https://octav.fi/
► Octav on X: https://x.com/OctavFi
► Tacticalls website: https://tacticalls.xyz/
► Tacticalls on X: https://x.com/tacticallsxyz
► Mathieu on X: https://x.com/mbaril010
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Sudo is the Project Lead and Zaki Manian is Head of Engineering at Sovright, which builds critical infrastructure for Zcash.
Just a few years ago, Zcash was almost dead. The treasury was tight, the team was shrinking, and the wallet was nearly unusable. Now the price is up 30x-40x since 2024, Bitcoiners are buying, and the team says they're just getting started.
In this episode, Zaki and Sudo walk through the full comeback story including the breakthrough with better wallets like Zodl, the unlock for ZEC DeFi with NEAR intents, the existential Orchard pool bug this year, quantum safety, and why they believe now is like Bitcoin in 2016.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏦 AXIS | The Origin Vault launched on Ethereum

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

♾️ INFINIT | Institutional-grade trading vaults, built onchain

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

💰 SAFFRON FINANCE | A fixed yield layer built on Uniswap

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:46 - Zaki and Sudo’s background
7:04 - What drew Zaki and Sudo to Zcash full time
12:52 - What triggered the price run for ZEC
19:02 - Two phases of Zcash’s redemption arc
22:04 - Why Zcash is special vs other blockchains
25:10 - What the Tor/IP privacy toggle in Zodl does
29:40 - How to buy ZEC privately
32:55 - The Orchard pool vulnerability explained
43:09 - Would shielded ZEC in Zodl be safe in a PQ-world?
45:19 - Could more minted ZEC be hiding in the Orchard pool?
48:17 - The ecosystem map for Zcash
51:32 - Cypherpunk’s role (CYPH) and profitability of mining ZEC
54:50 - Proof of work vs proof of stake debate in Zcash
57:09 - How Zcash governance actually works
1:03:54 - What is Sovright building for Zcash?
1:08:37 - What DeFi might be possible for Zcash in the future?
1:13:57 - Why Zcash is the "middle thing" between Bitcoin and experimental chains
1:17:03 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Sovright website: https://sovright.com/
► Zodl wallet website:https://zodl.com/
► Sovright on X: https://x.com/sovright_
► Sudo on X: https://x.com/sudo_ml
► Zaki on X: https://x.com/zmanian
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Alan is a privacy researcher and long-time contributor to Railgun.
Every DeFi transaction you make is fully public. But Railgun is building the incognito mode for Ethereum. How does it actually work, and how does it compare to Zcash? Can we really access private DeFi with any shielded asset on Ethereum? What we learned will surprise you.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏦 AXIS | The Origin Vault launched on Ethereum

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:55 - Why privacy matters
4:18 - What is Railgun?
5:50 - How to do a private swap on Ethereum with Railgun
9:42 - Railgun is like a privacy safe, but not a mixer
12:47 - Common uses of Railgun
16:50 - Privacy limitations: the privacy set problem explained
20:00 - Is Railgun similar to an L2?
23:48 - The balancing act of unstoppable access
25:49 - Railgun vs Zcash differences explained
30:47 - Which apps can I use for private DeFi with Railgun?
33:25 - Wallet-level privacy vs application-level privacy
41:41 - Railgun’s relationship working with the Ethereum Foundation
47:43 - Will privacy become a default setting or an option?
52:16 - The RAIL token: staking, governance, and yield
54:32 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Railgun website: https://railgun.org/
► Railgun on X: https://x.com/RAILGUN_Project
► Anon Inc wallet: https://anon.inc/
► Railgun on X: https://x.com/tsu_kareta
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Kyle is an investor and now Senior Research Analyst at DefiLlama.
Fundamentals are finally winning in crypto. But which sectors, which tokens, and why now?
In this episode of The Thesis, Kyle walks through his complete framework for investing this cycle, including his highest conviction bets such as Venice (VVV). He also shares his take on DATs, inference capital markets, and why liquid investors are more spoiled for choice right now than at any point in the last four years.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏦 AXIS | The Origin Vault launched on Ethereum

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:22 - Background at DeFiance Capital
4:57 - Moving from memes to fundamentals
11:53 - Why memecoins eventually led people back to fundamentals
22:19 - The StablecoinX Ethena DAT trade, on NASDAQ
25:04 - Why altcoin DATs are more interesting than MicroStrategy
27:29 - DeFi yield for public markets
30:53 - When investing, the founder is all that matters
38:30 - Investing in inference capital markets
44:50 - Why Venice (VVV) is the cleanest long on inference demand
50:13 - Kyle’s degen bet on AI inference with Orbio
53:21 - Ranking Kyle’s investments by sector
1:02:44 - Up-and-coming tokens according to Kyle
1:05:13 - Kyle’s thoughts on October and is market bottom in?
1:10:45 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Kyle on X: https://x.com/zeroxkyle
► DefiLlama Research website: https://defillama.com/research
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.