The Edge Podcast

Johann Eid is the Chief Business Officer at Chainlink Labs.
In this episode, Johann walks us through how crypto has evolved from a dreaming phase of romanticized white papers into its "big boy era," where hundreds of billions are now onchain, institutions from around the world are tokenizing RWAs like stocks, and stablecoins have changed the lives of everyday people from Lebanon to South America. He emphasizes why security is the foundation of everything built, what Chainlink's CCIP offers for an interoperable DeFi economy, and why AI agents transacting onchain represent the next wave of users nobody is pricing in yet.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏦 AXIS | The Origin Vault launches on Ethereum on July 29th

🌐 RE | Earn real yield backed by regulated reinsurance programs

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

🌏 MANTLE | The world’s premier RWA distribution layer

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:18 - How DeFi transformed from lofty ideas to real use cases
7:37 - Every institution wants to migrate its business logic onchain
12:14 - What finally pushed TradFi to move onchain
18:06 - Security means everything for adoption of DeFi
24:58 - CCIP and lessons from LayerZero-rsETH exploit
30:18 - Prediction markets and Chainlink's role
34:31 - Are AI agents the next wave of new users?
40:21 - What DeFi and TradFi misunderstand about each other
43:05 - The most bullish factor for Chainlink
45:30 - What needs to happen for DeFi to replace TradFi legacy markets?
50:48 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Chainlink website: https://chain.link/
► Chainlink on X: https://x.com/chainlink
► Johann Eid on X: https://x.com/EidJohann
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

John Gillen is an ex-BlackRock VP, General Partner at TRU Capital, and host of The Milk Road Show.
In this episode, John breaks down his Wartime Ethereum thesis on why this is a defining moment for Ethereum that demands engagement, conviction, and patience rather than capitulation. He walks through how ETH functions as a triple point asset, why stablecoins, tokenization, and the agentic economy are all in their first innings with Ethereum best positioned to capture each tailwind, and why decentralized AI makes the case for Ethereum's censorship resistance more urgent than ever.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

🌏 MANTLE | The world’s premier RWA distribution layer

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
3:01 - Why John got invested in Ethereum and ETH
8:39 - Why Ethereum + ETH are the most important chain + asset
14:29 - Why are we in Wartime Ethereum mode?
17:44 - Ethereum doubles down on “can’t be evil”
20:23 - Ethereum is trustware for building economic systems
24:48 - Is Wall Street understanding and buying ETH value accrual?
32:04 - The largest institutional bull run vs bearish retail sentiment
36:03 - When strong fundamentals translate to number-go-up for ETH
45:57 - CLARITY Act will be a tailwind for Ethereum’s growth
52:11 - There is no EF funding crisis, the ecosystem is reshaping
59:05 - Why decentralized AI makes the case for Ethereum
1:08:39 - DeFi attracts those who question the rules of society
1:10:33 - How to value ETH: Triple point asset framework explained
1:14:29 - John's outlook for ETH price
1:18:23 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Milk Road website: https://milkroad.com/pro/
► Milk Road on X: https://x.com/MilkRoadDaily
► John Gillen on X: https://x.com/BitcoinJesusETH
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and John all hold ETH.

Jai Bhavnani is the Founder of Waymont Co, the developer of the Royco protocol.
In this episode of DeFi Frontier, Jai walks through how Royco evolved from an incentive platform into a risk tranching protocol connecting RWA issuers with both institutions and DeFi users. He explains what makes an asset worth tranching, and then navigates through a real stress test in progress for Royco, with the recent apyUSD drawdown triggering a 21-day observation period. Plus, we get a first take on what to expect from Royco Dusk, a new app for extending credit to Royco senior tranche holders, through an AMM-backed liquidity pool.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:37 - What is Royco? A DeFi risk tranching protocol
6:01 - Why RWAs are the future of onchain yield
11:32 - What is Royco Dawn and what does it solve?
13:30 - What is the perfect asset to tranche?
18:07 - Screenshare and explanation of Royco’s live markets
22:01 - Observation period: Royco's first stress test with apyUSD
25:05 - How seniors stay protected while juniors absorb losses
27:00 - What could end the 21-day observation period?
27:34 - Can you deposit or withdraw during observation period?
29:01 - Can seniors lose money in a Royco loss event?
30:04 - How Royco tries to restore markets to healthy status
31:25 - Estimating losses if 21-day period runs out for apyUSD
33:40 - Design for juniors to not get wiped out
37:40 - What is protected? Tranching vs insurance
41:23 - Is security in DeFi cooked? How we move forward
43:49 - Royco’s decision to introduced delayed settlement
47:54 - Royco Dusk: Extend credit to RWAs with AMM-backed LP
50:43 - How seniors will get instant liquidity on Dusk
53:42 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Royco website: https://royco.org/
► Royco on X: https://x.com/roycoprotocol
► Jai Bhavnani on X: https://x.com/jaibhavnani
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad invested in Royco's seed round in 2024.

Odysseus is the Founder and CEO of Phylax Systems, and Declan Fox is the VP and Head of Linea at Consensys.
The rsETH exploit drained $292M from Aave, but a simple rule or circuit breaker could have prevented bigger losses!
In this episode, Odysseus and Declan walk us through how Phylax's DeFi circuit breaker works: code currently running on the Linea sequencer that checks every transaction against a set of protocol-defined policies before it's added to a block. Already live on Linea, Phylax has stopped over 4,000 drain attempts and protected $1.5M in cumulative volume, including a real attack on 0x where users were being drained through an immutable contract. They also cover what institutions are still waiting for before coming onchain, and how banks can build secure, private composable environments powered by Ethereum.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:02 - Declan’s work as Head of Linea
3:15 - What Is Phylax? Preventative security for blockchains and apps
4:45 - Ethereum’s security, with privacy and more protective controls for users
12:14 - How Phylax can protect L2s and apps without sacrificing decentralization
14:33 - What are institutions still waiting for, in order to come onchain?
18:54 - How Linea is helping institutions come onchain
23:06 - Freezing assets vs programmatic rules: what's the right threshold for action?
26:09 - Why institutional demand for DeFi should help crypto transcend politics
32:54 - How a Phylax circuit breaker could have stopped the Aave rsETH exploit
38:09 - What actually triggers the Phylax circuit breaker to detect and stop an attack?
42:38 - TradFi can build private, composable walled gardens on Ethereum
45:56 - How dApp and networks can get started implementing Phylax
47:32 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Phylax website: https://phylax.systems/
► Phylax Systems on X: https://x.com/phylaxsystems
► Odysseus on X: https://x.com/odysseas_eth
► Linea website: https://linea.build/
► Linea on X: https://x.com/lineabuild
► Declan Fox on X: https://x.com/DeclanFox14
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Tom Dunleavy is Head of Venture at Varys Capital.
In this episode, Tom walks us through his valuation framework for ETH. He offers a mental model where Ethereum is the vault filled with stablecoins, RWAs, and DeFi activity secured by it. But ETH is the lock--and the bigger the vault gets, the more valuable the lock has to be to protect it. Based on Ethereum's current onchain activity, Tom gets us to a fair value for ETH that's much higher than the price today. Furthermore, we discuss what happens to the price of ETH when Ethereum grows to $750B-$1T onchain by 2030.
Tom insists the vault won't stop growing thanks to demand for stablecoins and RWAs—and that ETH, the lock, is simply due for a repricing.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:51 - Tom’s role investing at Varys Capital
3:32 - How Tom became convinced DCF was the wrong way to value ETH
6:16 - Is Ethereum winning?
11:20 - Fees are friction, and hence not how we should value ETH
15:51 - Can Ethereum have its cake and eat it too, when it comes to capturing fees?
19:24 - If Ethereum is the vault, ETH is the lock
23:37 - Why stablecoin numbers are bullish against all odds this bear market
26:43 - Ethereum must succeed, or crypto as an asset class fails
28:39 - Linux and DTCC: Why the comparison to Ethereum is both useful and wrong
32:34 - The importance of Ethereum as trustware, producing blocks for over 10 years
35:19 - Underestimating the impact of Ethereum scaling L1
39:20 - If an issuer freezes stablecoins, it doesn’t break reliance on Ethereum security
41:50 - Tom’s valuation framework is for ETH, not for DeFi tokens
44:54 - $20,000 to $50,000 per ETH if onchain liquidity hits $750B–$1T
47:12 - How Tom gets to a fair market value today of $6,900 per ETH
50:03 - Was ETH overvalued in 2021 based on this same model?
52:38 - The 2030 base case ($55k) vs bull case ($138K)
53:36 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Tom Dunleavy on X: https://x.com/dunleavy89
► Tom's Ethereum article on X: https://x.com/dunleavy89/status/2059717202392359118?s=20
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad and Nomatic hold ETH.