The Psychedelic Podcast

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Heather Smith, founder of The Moxie School and a certified Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapist, about the intersection of parts work and psychedelic healing.
Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-354/?ref=278 
Heather explains how IFS offers a practical framework for working with what arises during psychedelic experiences. She describes IFS as an approach that helps people stay present with different parts of themselves, especially when difficult or unexpected material comes up.
The conversation explores how psychedelic experiences can bring awareness to underlying patterns and past experiences, and why that awareness on its own often doesn't lead to lasting change.
They also discuss common misconceptions about combining IFS with psychedelics, the role of preparation and integration, and how working directly with parts supports more stable change over time.
Highlights:
Misconceptions about IFS in psychedelic work
IFS as a mindset, not a method
How psychedelics reveal internal parts
Why insight alone isn't enough
The unburdening process in healing
Working with fear and difficult experiences
Preparation and integration as core skills
Practitioner integrity and embodied practice
Heather Smith is a visionary in the field of psychedelic healing, blending Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy with expanded states of consciousness to catalyze deep transformation. A Certified IFS therapist, she has completed Levels 1–3 of training and served as a Program Assistant multiple times.
She is the founder of The Moxie School®, where she trains psychedelic facilitators in IFS-informed approaches and supports both personal and professional development through immersive training and retreat experiences.
Episode Links:
The Moxie School
How to Journey: An IFS Field Guide to Psychedelic Journeys
Episode Sponsors:
The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.
Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Kathryn L. Tucker, J.D., a leading civil rights attorney and advocate for end-of-life autonomy, about the legal effort to expand access to psilocybin-assisted therapy for patients facing serious illness.
Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-353/?ref=278 
Kathryn shares how decades of work in right-to-die litigation led her to recognize a critical gap in palliative care, addressing psychological and existential suffering at the end of life. Drawing from emerging clinical research, she explains why psilocybin may offer meaningful relief for anxiety, depression, and distress in terminal patients.
The conversation explores the legal pathways being pursued to make this treatment accessible, including Right to Try laws, federal litigation with the DEA, and efforts to reschedule psilocybin. Kathryn also reflects on the broader cultural and ethical implications of allowing individuals greater choice in how they approach death.
Kathryn L. Tucker, JD, is a nationally recognized leader in advancing improved care for seriously ill and dying patients. She has held leadership roles across multiple nonprofit organizations, including the National Psychedelics Association, the End of Life Liberty Project, and Compassion & Choices. Tucker has litigated landmark cases before the U.S. Supreme Court, including Washington v. Glucksberg and Vacco v. Quill, and has played a key role in both end-of-life litigation and psychedelic policy advocacy.
Highlights:
Right to Try laws explained
Psilocybin as investigational medicine
DEA barriers to patient access
Litigation strategies for psychedelic access
Rescheduling psilocybin efforts
Palliative care gaps in mental suffering
Legal vs underground psychedelic
Episode Links:
National Psychedelics Association
Kathryn's LinkedIn 
Episode Sponsors:
The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.
Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

Healing Before Leading: Psychedelics and Political Integrity
In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Laura Dunn, civil rights attorney and congressional candidate, about trauma, leadership, and the role of psychedelic healing.
Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-352/?ref=278 
Laura shares how her work advocating for survivors led her to confront the deeper limitations of legal and institutional systems. While policy change can create meaningful protections, it often fails to address the underlying trauma individuals carry.
They explore how psychedelic experiences became part of her personal healing journey, and how that informs her approach to leadership, public service, and political integrity.
Laura Dunn is an award-winning civil rights attorney, former public school teacher, and congressional candidate in New York's 12th District. She helped shape Title IX protections, contributed to the Violence Against Women Act reauthorization, and founded SurvJustice, a nonprofit supporting survivors of sexual violence. Her work bridges advocacy, policy, and trauma-informed leadership.
Highlights:
From survivor advocacy to policy reform
Limits of legal systems in trauma healing
Why leadership requires inner work
Psychedelics as tools for self-awareness
Breaking stigma in political leadership
Bipartisan support for reform
Veterans and policy momentum
Trauma and leadership integrity
A vision for conscious governance
Episode Links:
Laura Dunn (Congress campaign Instagram)
SurvJustice (founded by Laura Dunn)
Episode Sponsors:
The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.
Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

Western Philosophy on Drugs: Consciousness, Dreams, and Reality
In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Justin Smith-Ruiu about how psychedelic experiences challenge long-standing assumptions about consciousness, perception, and reality.
Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-351/?ref=278 
Justin explains how Western philosophy has historically privileged rational, sober, and waking states of mind, often dismissing dreams and altered states as unreliable. He explores how psychedelic experiences push against these assumptions, raising deeper questions about knowledge, language, and what counts as real.
The conversation also examines the tension between therapeutic and existential uses of psychedelics, and how medicalization may shape the cultural role these substances play moving forward.
Justin Smith-Ruiu is a professor of history and philosophy of science at the Université Paris Cité and author of On Drugs: Psychedelics, Philosophy, and the Nature of Reality. His work explores intellectual history, consciousness, and the limits of rational thought, and he writes regularly for Harper's, WIRED, and The New York Times.
Highlights:
How philosophy excludes altered states
Why dreams are dismissed as unreliable
Psychedelics and limits of rationality
Language and ineffability of experience
Therapeutic vs existential frameworks
Medicalization and cultural impact
Philosophy beyond sober cognition
Episode Links:
Justin Smith-Ruiu's website
Episode Sponsors:
The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.
Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

Can Ketamine Help Benzodiazepine Withdrawal? - Melissa Bond & Dr. Amy de la Garza
In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Melissa Bond and Dr. Amy de la Garza about the hidden risks of benzodiazepines, the reality of dependency, and what recovery can require.
Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-350/?ref=278 
Melissa shares her experience of becoming dependent on prescribed medication, and the physical and emotional challenges of withdrawal. Dr. de la Garza brings a clinical perspective, explaining how benzodiazepines affect the nervous system and why withdrawal can be prolonged and destabilizing.
The conversation also looks at where conventional care often falls short, and how more integrative approaches are beginning to emerge. This includes the use of low-dose ketamine as a potential tool to support the nervous system during withdrawal, particularly in more complex or prolonged cases.
Melissa Bond is a narrative journalist and poet. Her memoir Blood Orange Night, which chronicles her experience with benzodiazepine dependency, was published by Simon & Schuster and recognized by The New York Times as one of the best audiobooks of 2022. Her work has appeared on PBS, The New York Times Podcast, RadioWest, and TEDx. Dr. Amy de la Garza is a board-certified physician in Family and Addiction Medicine, a certified Functional Medicine practitioner, and co-founder of Nosis Health, a virtual outpatient addiction medicine platform. Her work integrates functional, lifestyle, and emerging therapies, including ketamine-assisted treatment, to support recovery.
Highlights:
Melissa Bond's experience with benzodiazepine dependency and withdrawal
How prescribed use can gradually lead to physical dependence
Why benzodiazepine withdrawal can be prolonged and destabilizing
The neurological effects of benzodiazepines on the nervous system
Gaps in conventional approaches to anxiety and addiction treatment
The role of functional and lifestyle medicine in recovery
How low-dose ketamine is being explored to support withdrawal
What a more integrative, whole-person model of care can look like
Episode Links:
Melissa's memoir, "Blood Orange Night"
Dr. Amy de la Garza's Website
Nosis.health
Episode Sponsors:
The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.
Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.