RiskReversal Pod

Guy Adami interviews Michael Kao (@UrbanKaoboy), discussing the historic moves in gold and silver, the debate over fiat debasement versus speculative positioning, and why charts showing central bank gold eclipsing Treasury holdings can be misleading because much of the change is price appreciation rather than new buying. Kao argues true de-dollarization is unlikely due to the lack of a rival fiat ecosystem with comparable liquidity and deep bond markets, and says a shift from Treasuries to gold as a reserve anchor would imply economic austerity and slower global GDP growth. They explore how geopolitics (including post-Ukraine reserve seizure fears) and Trump-related tariff and deficit narratives have fueled gold, while Kao outlines a contrarian view that Trump 2.0 policies plus AI could be deflationary and potentially restore productivity-driven disinflationary growth similar to the late 1990s; he also critiques CBO debt projections for assuming low productivity growth. The conversation covers AI’s disruptive impact on industry moats and equity multiple compression versus immediate default risk, touches briefly on Japan’s bond market and the yen carry trade, and examines the “sanctity” of large AI CapEx plans and whether AI expands total addressable markets or mainly drives cost cutting.

Kao highlights his thesis from his piece on AI electrification: U.S. electricity demand may accelerate sharply after decades of flat growth, creating an energy bottleneck that increases reliance on natural gas (given limits to coal and nuclear), amplified by data center buildouts and LNG exports. He explains his preference for natural gas mineral strategies that distribute cash flow over trading commodities or owning E&P equities due to capital allocation risks, and notes recent oil spikes have often faded since 2022.

Show Notes

AI, Electrification, and the Hidden Energy Bottleneck | Michael Kao

The Fourth Turning by Strauss & Howe

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In this episode of The Risk Reversal Podcast, Dan Nathan and Guy Adami break down the massive rotation rocking the tech sector. Why are investors dumping software darlings like Salesforce, Adobe, and Oracle while Apple hits new highs? The guys debate whether the "AI tailwind" has officially become a headwind for SaaS companies and if the massive infrastructure spend by Microsoft and Google will ever generate a real return.

After the break, Dan sits down with Jason Wilk, Founder and CEO of Dave ($DAVE). Jason shares his incredible founder journey—from a professional golf aspirant to landing Mark Cuban as a lead investor who capped his salary at $30k. They discuss how Dave is using AI-driven underwriting to disrupt JPMorgan and Wells Fargo, slashing default rates from 20% to 1%, and the future of fintech in a high-rate environment.

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Dan Nathan welcomes Michael Dempsey, partner at Compound VC, for an in-depth discussion on AI, crypto, and technological investing. Returning guest Dempsey shares his insights on historical and emerging trends in AI, highlighting the evolving landscape of AI commercialization, the increasing speed from research to market, and the shift from market cap expansion to destruction. The podcast also dives into Dempsey's venture capital strategies, discussing his firm's impressive portfolio, including companies like Runway and Wave, and their new public markets fund. The conversation later transitions to crypto, with guest Evan Karvounis sharing his journey and the significant potential he sees in the decentralized exchange, Hyper Liquid. Michael further elaborates on Bitcoin's potential as a store of value. The episode encapsulates a comprehensive overview of the bleeding-edge tech landscape and its promising future.

After the break, Dan welcomes Evan Karvounis to the pod. Evan shares his view on Bitcoin's current branding issues linked to the Trump administration and the preference for gold among Eastern investors. The conversation then shifts to Ethereum and Solana, which Evan believes are significantly overvalued, explaining their past success through the 'casino chip thesis.' The focus then moves to Hyper Liquid, a decentralized exchange project Evan heavily invests in. He outlines its unique approach of building a product before a chain, its market potential, and recent impressive growth, particularly in traditional asset trading. The discussion concludes with Hyper Liquid's market positioning and revenue growth potential.

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Go Follow TWSS on Substack

In this episode of the RiskReversal Podcast, hosts Dan Nathan and Guy Adami discuss significant market movements such as the volatility index breaching 20, the rolling over of bank stocks, and Walmart's rise to an all-time high. They also delve into sectors affected by AI disruption, including tech, software, and semiconductors. Special guests from The Wall Street Skinny, Jen Saarbach and Kristen Kelly, join to discuss Google's issuance of a 100-year bond denominated in Sterling, the ongoing Warner Brothers acquisition saga, and the long-term impact of AI on employment and various industries. The episode concludes by examining the potential market effects of these trends and the implications for retail and institutional investors.

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Dan Nathan sits with Dan Ives, head of Technology Research at Wedbush. They delve into Q1 market earnings, guidance for 2026, and the implications on CapEx and stock market reactions. The discussion expands to OpenAI’s influence, disruptive technologies, and tech stocks like Microsoft, Meta, and Nvidia. They also cover Ives’ diversified roles including his tech research, crypto investments, and his eponymous ETF. The conversation touches on AI’s impact on tech and software sectors, the rise of financial services utilizing AI, and the broader implications for future investments and market behavior.

Show Notes

He’s Wall Street’s Biggest Showman. Should You Trust Him? (Barron's)

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