The Rainmaking Podcast

Most professionals hate the idea of selling. What if you didn't have to? Chris Papin has built a thriving multi-discipline practice as a JD, CPA, and insurance producer — without ever feeling like he's pitching. The secret is the trust economy: a system of intentionality, authenticity, and regularity that builds steady deal flow without pushing harder.

Chris Papin is a licensed attorney, certified public accountant, and insurance producer who works with small business owners and entrepreneurs across every stage of their business lifecycle. He's also the author of 168 Hours: A Startup Business Guide That Respects Your Time. In this episode, Chris joins Scott Love to break down exactly how professional services providers can stop relying on hustle and start building the kind of credibility that brings clients to them.

You'll learn:

Why deals are driven by emotion — and what that means for how you build trust with prospects

How to use a 90-second anecdote to open doors at any networking event without pitching

The "step zero" mindset shift that separates professionals who get results at conferences from those who just survive them

Why showing up with a QR code instead of a business card is a trust signal — not just a tech flex

How to use AI to data mine a conference attendee list and identify your top 10 targets in 30 minutes

The two biggest pitfalls that destroy deal flow — and how to avoid both

What a client "funnel" actually looks like for transactional professionals (lawyers, CPAs, consultants)

Why regularity matters more than intensity — and how to build consistency into your BD rhythm even during busy seasons

The "Think, Document, Do" framework: the three-step system that turns good intentions into actual pipeline

3 action steps to start building steady deal flow through trust — starting today

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

YouTube: https://youtu.be/CNP3rUgqQSo

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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:

https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott

Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.

📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
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This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.

For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Chris Papin:

Chris Papin is a multi-talented professional with an impressive array of qualifications that give him a unique, holistic perspective as an advisor – a licensed attorney, a certified public accountant, and a life, accident, and health insurance producer.

Chris holds a Bachelor's and Master's degree in accounting from the University of Oklahoma. He earned his Certified Public Accountant designation in 2007, followed by a Juris Doctor degree from Oklahoma City University School of Law in 2008. Admitted to practice before the United States Tax Court in 2010, Chris has garnered recognition for his
achievements, including being chosen for the 2009-2010 Leadership Academy Class by the Oklahoma Bar Association and receiving the 2010 Trailblazer honor from the Oklahoma Society of Certified Public Accountants. In 2017 Chris' firm received the Recipient Thomson Reuters Innovation Award, a customer superstar award in the Thomson Reuters community, for doing the most to innovate, invigorate, and grow its practice for the benefit of its clients.

In 2022, Chris won the Top Emerging Firms of the Year, an award that celebrates innovative and forward-thinking companies that have made a significant impact in their respective industries. This prestigious award recognizes emerging firms that have demonstrated exceptional growth,
financial performance, and a commitment to sustainability and social responsibility. It serves as a testament to the recipient's dedication to innovation, customer satisfaction, and business excellence.

Links:

https://papinspeaks.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispapin/

Order Chris Papin’s book here:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GL8P2PJD
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Most law firms know AI is changing their industry. Fewer know exactly where to start, what to avoid, or how to build a technology strategy that doesn't blow up mid-implementation.

Eric Thurston is Executive Chairman of SurePoint Technologies — one of the most widely used legal technology platforms in the country — and a veteran software executive with more than 20 years of experience building and scaling technology companies. He's seen thousands of law firms navigate technology change from the inside. In this episode, Eric joins Scott Love to share a clear-eyed, practical view of where the legal industry stands right now on AI and technology, and what firm leaders need to do to stay ahead of it.

You'll learn:

How AI has evolved from "just ask ChatGPT" to a genuine business strategy — and what that shift means for law firms right now

The two sides of legal technology: practice of law vs. business of law — and why the business side is where most firms are leaving money on the table

Why change management is the most underestimated part of any technology implementation

The #1 mistake law firm leaders make when buying new tech tools (hint: it's not the tool itself)

Why older, monolithic systems can't interact with modern AI — and what to do about it

How one firm identified $70,000–$100,000 per attorney per year in recoverable revenue through process improvement alone

Why attorneys aren't going away — but the nature of associate work is already changing

How forward-thinking firms are rebranding, restructuring, and positioning themselves to be acquisition targets or platform buyers

Why data cleanup is the most overlooked prerequisite for any AI initiative

3 action steps law firm leaders can take right now to build a technology strategy that actually works

Eric also shares details on SurePoint's annual Ignite Conference — September 14–16 in Savannah, Georgia — and the firm's suite of practice management, business development, and legal intelligence solutions.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

YouTube: https://youtu.be/ozGhSb72pTE

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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:

https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott

Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.

📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About Eric Thurston:

Eric Thurston is Executive Chairman of the Board at SurePoint Technologies and a veteran software executive with more than 20 years of experience building and scaling technology companies. Having led organizations across legal technology, workforce management, and enterprise software, Eric specializes in driving growth, innovation, and customer success.
Before becoming Executive Chairman, Eric served as President and CEO of SurePoint and previously held CEO and executive leadership roles at TCP
Software, Personify, and Mitratech. His track record of building high-performing teams and growing technology businesses earned him recognition as an Ernst & Young Entrepreneur Of The Year® finalist.
Link to Ignite:
Ignite2026 - SurePoint Technologies

https://surepoint.com/ignite2026/?utm_source=rainmakingpod&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=me1215a1
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Posting on LinkedIn once isn't thought leadership. Speaking on one panel isn't thought leadership. Real thought leadership is a strategy — and most professionals have never been given a clear framework to build one.

Bill Sherman is COO of Thought Leadership Leverage, co-host of the Leveraging Thought Leadership podcast, and lead co-author of The Thought Leadership Handbook — the book Scott calls the most intellectually rigorous, practically useful resource on thought leadership he's ever read. In this episode, Bill shares the framework he and his colleagues developed over 20 years of consulting with Fortune 500 executives, professional services providers, and emerging experts who want their ideas to travel further and earn more trust.

You'll learn:

The difference between being an expert and becoming a thought leader — and why the skills don't automatically transfer

Bill's 20-word test: what every core idea must do to earn a "tell me more"

The 4 elements of thought leadership: Core Idea, Content Library, Market Offerings, and Platform Identity — explained in full

What a content library actually is (and why sticky notes on a wall is a perfectly legitimate starting point)

Platform identity: how people talk about your ideas when you're not in the room — and why that matters more than personal brand

Why most professionals suffer from "content insecurity" (imposter syndrome's cousin) — and how to push past it

The paradox of knowledge-sharing: why giving away your best ideas makes more people come back to you

Why the "keep it behind the paywall" instinct is the #1 thing holding thought leaders back

How AI is absorbing generic expertise — and what makes your voice irreplaceable

3 action steps to shift from expert to thought leader and start building your platform today

Bill also shares how The Thought Leadership Handbook came to exist — from 2.6 million words of podcast transcripts and two co-authors who said they'd never write a book.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

YouTube: https://youtu.be/jCFNedZciu4

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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:

https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott

Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.

📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About Bill Sherman:

Bill Sherman stumbled into thought leadership when a Fortune 500 executive asked: "How do I scale the ideas in my book?" That was twenty years ago. Today he's COO of Thought Leadership Leverage and co-host of the Leveraging Thought Leadership podcast.
After exploring why experts share their best ideas with strangers, he thinks more of them should. That's why he put his frameworks and tools into The Thought Leadership Handbook. Bill lives in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Links:

Bill's site: https://aha-moments.com/

Book: https://thoughtleadershiphandbook.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bill-sherman-aha-moments/
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Private equity has moved through healthcare, dental, and accounting. Law firms are next — and the deals are already happening. But most law firm leaders don't fully understand the structure, the math, or the risks involved.

TJ Henry is the co-founder and managing partner of Federate, a management services organization that launches, operates, and scales law firms. He's also one of the most knowledgeable people in the country on how MSO structures work, what investors are actually looking for, and what law firm founders need to know before they sit down at the table.

In this episode — part of the Sometimes Tuesdays legal-specific series — TJ joins Scott Love for one of the most detailed, practical conversations the Rainmaking Podcast has ever had on law firm M&A, private equity, and the MSO model.

You'll learn:

What an MSO actually is — and why it's the legal workaround that makes third-party investment in law firms possible

How 20-year contracts, EBITDA calculations, and per-timekeeper fees actually work in these deals

Why a $100M revenue firm doesn't generate $100M in EBITDA — and how to find the real number

What realistic deal multiples look like right now (and why low-to-mid teens should make you nervous)

Why the lawyers most likely to get a deal done are the ones willing to stay and grow — not the ones looking to cash out and leave

The three levers every PE investor needs to pull to run a profitable MSO deal: EBITDA arbitrage, law firm growth, and cost reduction

What investors get wrong when they try to buy into law firms without law firm operators on their team

The difference between a roll-up model and a multi-firm MSO — and the conflicts-of-interest issue that makes one harder than the other

Why small to mid-sized firms are actually better deal targets than AmLaw 200 firms

What "law firm in a box" looks like — and how Federate can get a new firm up and running in 60 days

If you're a law firm founder, managing partner, equity partner, or investor evaluating the legal services market — this episode is required listening.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

YouTube: https://youtu.be/lGP1mVGOMzE

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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:

https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott

Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.

📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
----------------------------------------
This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About TJ Henry:

T.J. Henry is a seasoned legal operations and law firm executive with a track record of helping law firms and legal businesses launch, grow, and scale. He specializes in strategic transformation, operational design, and growth, with a focus on building the infrastructure, teams, technology, and systems that allow legal organizations to operate more effectively. T.J. is the Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Federate, where he works with law firms and investors across the legal industry.

Links:

https://federatelegal.com/contact/?utm_source=rainmaking_podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rainmaking_podcast
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Scott Love has read thousands of law firm partner bios. Most of them are bad. Most of them read like word-for-word copies of every other attorney at every other firm — and they do nothing to compel a prospective client to pick up the phone.

In this solo episode, Scott breaks down the five pillars of a high-performing online bio: the framework he's developed over 30+ years as a legal recruiter that turns a forgettable credentials list into a compelling narrative that makes clients say, "Get me that person."

This one applies whether you're a law firm partner, a consultant, a financial advisor, or any other professional services provider whose bio is the first thing a prospect reads before deciding whether to reach out.

You'll learn:

Why most professional bios fail — and the one question every bio must answer
The difference between marketing and business development (and which one your bio actually is)
The 5 pillars of a compelling online bio: Key Differentiators, Distinction Points, Value Proposition, Track Record & Proof Points, and Thought Leadership
The "so what? so that." exercise that instantly reveals whether your bio is making a real case for you
Why in-house experience, prior careers, and unusual backgrounds are your biggest untapped differentiators — and why most people leave them out
How to turn a generic credentials paragraph into a narrative that shows what you actually do for clients
What thought leadership on a bio looks like — and the specific details that signal authority to a prospect
The final bonus tip: 15 minutes a day that separates consistent rainmakers from everyone else

Scott also references his co-authored book Rainmaker Confidential (with Henry DeVries and Mark LeBlanc) — a full playbook for thought leadership and client development.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

YouTube: https://youtu.be/yP09gNC3SZo

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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:

https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott

Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.

📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
----------------------------------------
This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About Scott Love:

Scott Love is a legal recruiter solely focused on recruiting corporate and finance partners for global law firms in major markets. He is the host of The Rainmaking Podcast, co-author of Rainmaker Confidential, and speaks professionally at conferences on sales, client development, and recruiting.

📘 Book: Rainmaker Confidential — RainmakerConfidential.com
📖 Rainmaking Magazine: free complimentary subscription at TheRainmakingMagazine.com
🎓 Free Webinars: RainmakingSeminars.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices