Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Australia has one of the world's fastest-moving electricity systems. It leads the world in rooftop solar, has deployed grid-scale batteries at extraordinary speed, and is now starting to replace its ageing coal fleet with cleaner sources of energy. But as renewable costs rise and electricity demand grows, can the transition remain affordable while maintaining a reliable power system?

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Paul Simshauser, CEO of Iberdrola Australia, and one of Australia's leading energy economists. Drawing on decades of experience across electricity markets, networks and policy, Paul explains what makes Australia's power system unique, and what the rest of the world can learn from it.

They discuss why rooftop solar has become so successful in Australia, how batteries are transforming electricity markets, and how the country's energy-only market encourages investment. They also explore the economics of replacing ageing coal plants, the costs of new renewable generation, the role of electricity pricing and demand tariffs, and what will be needed to build a resilient, affordable power system as Australia moves towards net zero.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The rooftop solar revolution

How batteries are reshaping the grid

Why solar is cheaper in Australia than elsewhere

The challenges of retiring coal

Whether renewables can stay affordable

Building a resilient power system

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

Paul Simshauser’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-simshauser-00106713/

Iberdrola Australia: https://www.iberdrola.com.au

Link to Paul’s articles: https://experts.griffith.edu.au/18942-paul-simshauser/publications

Malcolm Turnbull on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9CUGRHCswU&t=5s

Marc England on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tKVSJcS_SI

Darren Miller on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBhkBTZ9lSI&t=2s

Tony Abbott on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_39HmAgq9RY&t=1s

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

STC: Small-scale Technology Certificates

CFD: Contract For Difference

PPAs: Power Purchase Agreements

IBGYBG: “I'll be gone, you'll be gone.”

OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer

AEMO: Australian Electricity Market Operator

LNG: Liquefied Natural Gas

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

02:28 - Paul's Background

04:07 - Iberdrola Australia

06:42 - Australia's Power System

09:15 - Battery Revolution

12:36 - Energy-Only Market

14:35 - Why Solar Succeeds

18:21 - Commercial Solar Challenge

24:30 - Ageing Coal Fleet

28:49 - Carbon Markets & Pricing

35:00 - Renewable Costs

39:18 - Future Demand

42:45 - Grid Resilience

48:00 - Outro

Microbes rarely feature in discussions about climate change, yet they play a central role in regulating greenhouse gases through the Earth's carbon, methane and nitrogen cycles. As the climate changes, understanding these natural processes is becoming increasingly important to develop new approaches to clean energy, agriculture and emissions reduction.

This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington speaks with Professor Emeritus David Kirchman of the University of Delaware, one of the world's leading microbial ecologists and author of 'Microbes: the Unseen Agents of Climate Change.'

They explore how microbes drive the carbon, methane and nitrogen cycles, how climate change is reshaping ecosystems from permafrost to coral reefs, and how microbial science could help tackle the climate crisis, from microbial fuel cells and lower-emissions agriculture to biofuels, methane reduction and even emerging forms of carbon removal and geoengineering

Topics covered in this episode:

The microbes shaping Earth's climate

Ocean carbon cycle

Methane-eating microbes

Arctic warming impacts

Coral reefs and climate resilience

Low-carbon agriculture

Microbes powering climate solutions

Climate interventions

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

David Kirchman’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-kirchman-5925b331/

David’s book: Microbes, the Unseen Agents of Climate Change: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Microbes-Unseen-Agents-Climate-Change/dp/019768856X

Merlin Sheldrake on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC-9ulSTnB4

Sea ice melting effect on microbes article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-77821-9

Background on James Lovelock's Gaia Hypothesis: https://courses.seas.harvard.edu/climate/eli/Courses/EPS281r/Sources/Gaia/Gaia-hypothesis-wikipedia.pdf

DMS: Dimethyl Sulphide

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

00:45 - About David Kirchman

05:50 - What Are Microbes?

15:29 - Climate Cycles & Carbon

23:04 - Methane Microbes

29:01 - Climate Change

34:41 - Coral Reefs

41:02 - Microbe Climate Solutions

50:10 - Climate Engineering

01:00:28 - Outro

David Pocock is one of Australia's most influential politicians, working as the Senator of the Australian Capital Territory. He brings a distinctive perspective to some of the country's biggest debates, from climate policy and energy security to democratic reform and the future of work.

A former captain of the Australian rugby team, David entered politics after years of speaking out on issues including climate change, equality and environmental protection. Four years into his Senate career, he joins Michael Liebreich to explain how independent politics works in practice, what he's hearing from voters across Australia, his campaign to tax natural gas exports, and why he believes the country's clean energy transition must deliver lower household bills as well as lower emissions.

The conversation explores Australia's world-leading rooftop solar uptake, the barriers slowing electric vehicle adoption, and why David believes Australians deserve a greater return from the country's gas exports. They also look ahead to the rise of AI and data centres, asking whether governments are paying enough attention to the implications for jobs, tax revenues and energy demand.

Topics covered in this week's episode:

David’s journey from rugby player to Senator

Australian voters' priorities

Lowering household energy bills

Australia's clean energy successes

Why EV adoption lags

Taxing Australia's gas exports

Data centres and energy demand

AI concerns and the future of work

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

David Pocock’s bio: https://www.davidpocock.com.au/about

David Pocock “Chains himself to digger” news article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/30272670

Aksel Lund Svindal on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRc1VCBnVgI

Alex Honnold on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwmQf0mhHkE

Prince Albert of Monaco on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-eYHKpDBYU

Håkan Agnevall (Wärtsilä) on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUYjGT55g5A

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Acronyms:

C&I: Commercial and Industrial

ICE: Internal Combustion Engine

ACT: Australian Capital Territory

Chapters:

00:00 Intro

01:48 From Rugby to Politics

11:46 Getting Arrested For Activism

16:35 What Voters Want

20:34 Rising Voter Frustration

26:16 Australia's Energy Report

28:57 Why EVs Lag Behind

31:19 Taxing Gas Exports

36:09 Data Centre Dilemma

39:46 AI vs Human Jobs

44:47 Delivering Real Results

49:44 Outro

The UK is heavily exposed to global energy markets and has some of the highest electricity prices in Europe. At the same time, vast amounts of heat generated across industry and infrastructure go unused. Whether it should be called "waste" is a matter of debate, but could making better use of the energy we already produce be one of the biggest untapped opportunities in the energy transition?

This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Jonathan Maxwell, founder and CEO of SDCL, a specialist investment firm focused on energy efficiency. They explore why energy efficiency should be treated as a strategic resource, why “waste” heat could become one of Europe's most overlooked energy resources, and how Europe and the UK can strengthen its energy resilience following renewed tensions in the Strait of Hormuz.  

They discuss the economics of gas versus electricity, the rapid growth of AI-driven data centres and their power requirements, and how long-term infrastructure investment can help build a more resilient, affordable and efficient energy system.

Topics covered in this episode:

The Strait of Hormuz and Europe's energy security

The UK's energy system and the cost of electrification

Gas versus electricity pricing

Debating “waste” heat and energy efficiency

AI, data centres and growing power demand

Powering and cooling next-generation infrastructure

Infrastructure investment and portfolio management

Europe's energy transition beyond the AI boom

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

Jonathan Maxwell’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-maxwell-a121a533/

Jonathan on Cleaning Up 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN2YWPqBPHk

Jonathan on Cleaning Up 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OTbyOxYUpg

Jonathan on Cleaning Up 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqrtr2lePM8

Jonathan’s substack: https://jonathanmaxwell.substack.com/

The Edge by Jonathan Maxwell: https://the-edge-book.com/product/the-edge-by-jonathan-maxwell/

SDCL: https://www.sdclgroup.com/

Ed Conway on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhvEExdYeEU

Robert Dunn on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ 

Acronyms:

LNG: Liquified Natural Gas

JCPOA: Joint and Comprehensive Plan of Action

CHP: Combined Heat and Power

PUE: Power Usage Effectiveness

CCHP: Combined Cooling Heat and Power

EBITDA: Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortisation

Chapters:

00:00 - Europe's Energy Security

05:11 - Strait of Hormuz Impact

15:39 - Electrifying the UK

23:14 - Gas vs Electricity

28:56 - Waste Heat Debate

32:14 - Powering Data Centres

42:20 - AI Investment

46:42 - Cooling Data Centres

52:16 - Managing Energy Assets

01:06:47 - Outro

Across huge swathes of the global economy, clean solutions are already cheaper than their fossil alternatives, and so a carbon price isn’t needed. But in other sections of the economy, the costs of green tech are higher, and so carbon pricing will be needed to make them cost competitive. But what should that price be, and how can it be successfully implemented?

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Professor Ross Garnaut, a towering figure in the debate about how to implement carbon pricing, and founder of the Superpower Institute. Having advised successive Australian governments on climate policy since 2007, Ross makes the case for how Australia can export green iron, ammonia, and carbon-based fuels to industrialised economies that don't have the land or renewable resources to decarbonise on their own.

They discuss the political history behind Australia's stop-start carbon pricing, the debate over whether green hydrogen can ever get cheap enough to make the superpower vision work, and how First Nations communities are shaping decisions about the land at the centre of it. They also explore the tension between protectionism and genuine security concerns over Chinese supply chains, and whether China's undervalued currency is really what's holding back Australia's competitiveness.

Topics covered in this episode:

Australian climate policy under different Prime Ministers

Australia as a low-carbon superpower

Exporting molecules vs exporting electricity

First Nations involvement in land use

The green hydrogen cost debate

Protectionism vs. security concerns

Pinning down an actual carbon price

Trade imbalances and exchange rates

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live.

Links:

Watch our full Deep Dive Australia Series: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc8cNKXCII70&si=GmXz-zQe3yK42V3o

Ross Garnaut’s bio: https://www.rossgarnaut.com.au/

Malcolm Turnbull on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9CUGRHCswU

Tony Abbott on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_39HmAgq9RY

The Superpower Institute: https://www.superpowerinstitute.com.au/

The SuperPower Institute reports: https://www.superpowerinstitute.com.au/work?type=report

Ross' book — Superpower: Australia's Low-Carbon Opportunity by Ross Garnaut: https://www.blackincbooks.com.au/books/superpower