Jones & McLean

When should education systems mandate what schools do? We explore the growing number of mandates in Australian education, the tension between system control and school autonomy, and whether mandates actually improve student learning.

In this episode we discuss:

Why education systems mandate particular practices, assessments and approaches.

The growing number of mandates across Australian states and territories, particularly in literacy.

Why some mandates are more useful (and measurable) than others.

The difference between mandate reach and mandate impact.

The risks of reform overload, constant policy change and disrupting good work already happening in schools.

** One Good Woman **

Our One Good Woman is Dr Jennifer Buckingham, who has played an instrumental role in Australian reading policy reform, particularly the introduction of the Year 1 Phonics Check.

Jennifer Buckingham — Churchill Fellowship report: An Investigation of Literacy Instruction and Policy in the United Kingdom and Ireland

Focus on Phonics: Why Australia Should Adopt the Year 1 Phonics Check and other publications

Five from Five

** Research mentioned in this episode **

Phonics screening checks and outcomes

England's Phonics Screening Check — national results from 2012 to 2026

South Australia's Phonics Screening Check — results and historical data

NSW Year 1 Phonics Screening Check — 2025 results (CESE)

Victoria's Year 1 Phonics Check — information and 2025 results

Policy and curriculum reform

England's validated systematic synthetic phonics programmes — the list of 45 programmes and the validation criteria discussed in the episode.

** Also mentioned **

Victorian teaching and learning frameworks

Victorian Teaching and Learning Model 2.0 — policy and implementation requirements

The original Victorian Teaching and Learning Model (VTLM) — includes an overview of the previous model.

Framework for Improving Student Outcomes (FISO 2.0) — linked through the Victorian Department of Education's policy resources.

We also take a trip down memory lane through Victoria's earlier frameworks, including the Principles of Learning and Teaching (POLT), e5 and the High Impact Teaching Strategies (HITS).

Emina's writing on mandates and reform

Reading Reform in the Time of Launch, Mandate, Deliver

Outrage and Polarisation Have Not Been Mandated

False Dichotomies and Perspective Lobotomies

** Notices **

Phonics Plus On Demand: New self-paced professional learning is available to support Victorian teachers and school teams to implement Phonics Plus. It includes 12 modules and approximately eight hours of learning. Register through Arc Events to access the resource.

Jones & McLean merch: We're taking requests! What would you like to see? Send us your ideas, including favourite podcast quotes. We'll have merch prizes for listeners in the coming months.

** Get in touch **

Email us at jonesmcleanpod@gmail.com.

If you're enjoying Jones & McLean, please subscribe so you don't miss an episode, and leave us a rating or review. We love reading your comments!

Instructional models are designed to bring consistency to teaching — but are they actually helping schools achieve it?

In this episode we discuss:

Why generic lesson models can be problematic when they don't account for the specific curriculum being taught

How instructional models can create a veneer of consistency without necessarily improving quality of teaching

The difference between instructional models, principles of instruction and specific teaching techniques

Why schools should prioritise curriculum quality, shared instructional principles and teacher judgement over one-size-fits-all lesson structures

** One Good Woman **

This episode’s One Good Woman is Haili Hughes, an experienced teacher, school leader, author and Associate Professor at La Trobe University.

We discuss Hughes’ writing on teaching and learning, particularly her work exploring the tension between consistency and teacher autonomy.

Her work is a useful contribution to conversations about how schools can establish shared expectations for teaching while preserving the professional judgement teachers need to respond to their students and the curriculum.

Explore Haili Hughes’ writing

** Research mentioned in this episode **

Christine Counsell’s writing on curriculum and subject-specific pedagogy features prominently in this episode.

Explore Christine Counsell’s writing on curriculum

** Also mentioned **

Principles versus practices — The Implementation Edit

The article explores why schools should establish shared principles while allowing teachers to make decisions about the practices most appropriate for their curriculum and students.

Building the Cold Call craft — The Implementation Edit

Bron also mentions her recent writing on Cold Call, exploring why the technique requires more than simply selecting students to answer questions, and how teachers can develop greater expertise in its use.

** Notices **

Science of Learning Conference — Matthew Flinders Anglican College

Bron and Emina are both presenting at the Science of Learning Conference on the Sunshine Coast. Bron will be speaking about responsive teaching, while Emina will deliver sessions on implementation and disciplinary vocabulary instruction.

Find out more about Matthew Flinders Anglican College

Jones & McLean merchandise

We're taking suggestions for Jones & McLean merch! If you've got an idea for a mug, T-shirt or something else entirely, we'd love to hear it. There may even be some merchandise prizes for listeners in the coming months.

** Get in touch **

If you’re enjoying Jones & McLean, we’d love you to follow the podcast and leave us a rating or review. Get in touch at jonesmcleanpod@gmail.com

Curriculum is foundational to everything we do in schools — but what do we actually mean when we say “curriculum”, and why is it so difficult to get right?

In this episode we discuss:

The different meanings of curriculum, from national and state frameworks to what is actually taught in classrooms

Why Australian curriculum documents often lack the detail and coherence schools need

How vague, skills-based content descriptions leave schools doing foundational curriculum development themselves

Why curriculum development requires deep subject expertise, ambitious thinking and attention to detail

The importance of shared curriculum ownership and oversight in schools

** One Good Woman **

This episode’s One Good Woman is Christine Counsell, a former history teacher and one of the UK's leading curriculum thinkers.

We discuss Counsell’s work on the importance of subject knowledge and curriculum content, including her argument that decisions about what to teach must come before decisions about how to teach it.

Listen to Christine Counsell on Mind the Gap

** Research mentioned in this episode **

Christodoulou, D. (2016). Making Good Progress? The Future of Assessment for Learning. Oxford University Press.

This book examines the relationship between curriculum, assessment and progression, including the limitations of describing learning through generic skills rather than specifying the knowledge students need to acquire.

Find the book

** Also mentioned **

National curriculum in England: Primary curriculum

Emina discusses the greater specificity of England’s primary curriculum, particularly in English, where expectations include explicit detail about spelling, grammar and foundational literacy knowledge.

Ruth Ashbee — Curriculum: Theory, Culture and the Subject Specialisms

We also discuss Ruth Ashbee’s work on the purposes of school curriculum, including democratic participation, preparation for further learning and the value of knowledge for its own sake.

** Notices **

Leading with Literacy — PETAA Conference

Emina is presenting a session on sustainable curriculum development and leadership at the Primary English Teaching Association Australia (PETAA) conference in Sydney.

Find out more about PETAA

Music in Schools — Victorian Department of Education

Bron gives a shout-out to Music in Schools, a Victorian Department of Education initiative supporting primary teachers to develop their music teaching expertise through mentoring, professional learning and school resources.

Find out more about Music in Schools

** Get in touch **

If you’re enjoying Jones & McLean, we’d love you to follow the podcast and leave us a rating or review. Get in touch at jonesmcleanpod@gmail.com

Cold Call has become a familiar classroom technique — but there’s more to doing it well than simply asking a question and choosing a student to answer.

In this episode we discuss:

What Cold Call is — and what the research tells us about it

Why randomising student selection can create problems

The importance of teacher judgement when deciding who to call on

Why Cold Call works best after everyone has had an opportunity to think

How writing, pair talk and mini whiteboards can strengthen Cold Call

 

** One Good Woman **

This episode’s One Good Woman is Elise Dallimore, whose research has examined Cold Calling in university classrooms.

We discuss Dallimore and colleagues’ research into how Cold Calling affects students’ participation, including work examining students’ comfort with participating in class and the relationship between Cold Calling and voluntary participation.

Her work is a useful reminder that Cold Call isn’t simply about getting more students to answer questions: the way the technique is established and used matters.

 

** Research mentioned in this episode **

Dallimore, E. J., Hertenstein, J. H., & Platt, M. B. (2013). Impact of Cold-Calling on Student Voluntary Participation. Journal of Management Education, 37(3), 305–341.

This study examined the relationship between Cold Calling and students’ voluntary participation in class. The researchers found that high levels of Cold Calling were associated with increased voluntary participation, and that students became more comfortable participating as the course progressed.

Read the study

 

** Also mentioned **

Building the Cold Call craft

Bron has also written about Cold Call over at The Implementation Edit, including why Cold Call is more sophisticated than it can first appear, the problems with randomised selection, and the importance of embedding it within a broader set of responsive teaching routines.

 

** Notices **

Next Steps in Responsive Teaching

A digital masterclass with Bron
27 January 2027 | 9.30am–1.30pm
Register here

 

There are new eps coming soon on Emina’s other podcast. Heavy is the English Head

 

** Get in touch **

If you’re enjoying Jones & McLean, we’d love you to follow the podcast and leave us a rating or review. Get in touch at jonesmcleanpod@gmail.com

Slides appear to have become a common tool for teaching — but when are they genuinely useful, and when might a different resource be required?

In this episode, we take a closer look at slide decks. We explore the things slides can do particularly well: supporting fast-paced review, vocabulary instruction, visual representations and pre-planned checks for understanding.

But we also look at the risks. What happens when the slide deck becomes the curriculum — or the plan itself? Does giving every teacher the same deck really create consistency? And what gets lost when static slides replace live modelling, rich texts, concrete materials or interactions with students?

In this episode

When slides are a genuinely useful instructional tool

Why shared slide decks can be helpful for large teaching teams

Why slides shouldn’t become the plan

The difference between consistency of resource and consistency of instruction

Why “low variance” slide decks don’t necessarily produce low-variance teaching

The importance of choosing resources that suit the subject and the learning

One Good Woman: Ruth Ashbee
This episode’s One Good Woman is Ruth Ashbee, teacher, school leader and author of Curriculum: Theory, Culture and the Subject Specialisms.

We discuss Ruth’s work on curriculum, knowledge and subject disciplines — and particularly the importance of thinking carefully about how curriculum and its resources work differently across subject areas.

Ruth Ashbee — Curriculum: Theory, Culture and the Subject Specialisms
Read more about the book at Routledge

Research mentioned in this episode
Does teaching with PowerPoint increase students’ learning?

Baker, J. P., Goodboy, A. K., Bowman, N. D., & Wright, A. A. (2018). Does teaching with PowerPoint increase students’ learning? A meta-analysis. Computers & Education, 126, 376–387.

Read the study

This meta-analysis brought together 48 studies conducted over 22 years. Overall, students taught with PowerPoint did not demonstrate greater cognitive learning than students taught using traditional approaches. The authors argue that the more useful question is not simply whether PowerPoint is used, but how it is integrated into teaching to support learning.

Also mentioned
Next Steps in Responsive Teaching
A digital masterclass with Bron

27 January 2027 | 9.30am–1.30pm

Register here

Heavy is the English Head

There are new eps coming soon on Emina’s other podcast.

Heavy is the English Head

Get in touch
If you’re enjoying Jones & McLean, we’d love you to follow the podcast and leave us a rating or review. Get in touch at jonesmcleanpod@gmail.com