Pain Reprocessing Therapy Podcast

For many people with ME/CFS, the message from the medical system has been consistent and discouraging: there is no cure, manage your symptoms, adjust your expectations.
But what happens when researchers stop asking doctors what recovery looks like and start asking the people who actually recovered?
In this episode, host Daniel Lyman talks with two researchers who did exactly that.
Julie Harper struggled with chronic fatigue syndrome for seven years before recovering through a mind-body approach. That experience led her to pursue a master's in psychology and conduct qualitative research interviews with eight women who had also recovered from ME/CFS. Her study asked two questions: what does recovery actually mean to people who have been through it, and how did they get there?
What she found was four recurring themes across the women she interviewed, two foundational and two active.
The foundational elements were a recovery mindset, meaning a belief that getting better was possible and a sense of personal agency, and an explanatory narrative, a new way of understanding why symptoms developed and why they persisted.
The active elements were approaching symptoms differently, without fear and without treating every sensation as evidence of damage, and addressing the root causes, the emotional patterns, relational dynamics, and ways of living that may have contributed to the illness in the first place.
Perhaps just as striking was what recovery meant to these women once they were on the other side. Not a return to their old lives, but something better. A different relationship with their bodies. And a confidence that even if symptoms returned, they would know exactly what to do.
Dr. Sarah Cefai is a senior lecturer in gender and cultural studies at Goldsmiths, University of London. Her study analyzed 75 recovery interviews from Raelan Agle's YouTube channel, looking not just at what people said helped them, but at the larger story of how people move from illness to recovery.
Across 75 very different stories, a few things kept showing up. 95% of participants described a mind-body shift in their understanding of their symptoms as a turning point in their recovery. 84% spoke specifically about nervous system regulation. And nearly everyone described a moment, not always dramatic, where they made a decision to keep looking for a way forward, even when the medical system had told them there wasn't one. Read the study.
Dr. Cefai is also honest about what the research can and cannot tell us. The people represented in these stories are not everyone with ME/CFS. But the patterns are real, and they point somewhere useful.
Both researchers arrive at the same place: recovery is possible, it tends to involve a shift in how you understand your symptoms, and the stories of people who have gotten better are worth listening to carefully.

Resources and Additional Links
Learn More About Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT)
Subscribe for updates, resources, and insights in the world of chronic pain and Pain Reprocessing Therapy.
Patient Hub
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Learn about WellBody Psychotherapy and how our certified therapists and coaches can support your healing journey: Visit WellBody
Email Us: info@painreprocessingtherapy.com

For most people who experience tinnitus, hyperacusis, or misophonia, the message from the medical system has been some version of the same thing: there is no cure, learn to cope, this is just your life now.

Dr. Marcia Dewey has spent her career pushing back on that narrative, and in this episode she sits down with host Daniel Lyman to talk about why.

Dr. Dewey is an audiologist who founded the Tinnitus and Hyperacusis Program at Froedtert and the Medical College of Wisconsin. After discovering neuroplasticity-based approaches through the Curable app, she began integrating PRT principles into her work with clients experiencing sound-related symptoms, and what she's seen since has changed the way she practices.

What Daniel and Dr. Dewey cover:

What tinnitus, hyperacusis, and misophonia actually are. Tinnitus is any sound you hear from inside your body, not just ringing. Hyperacusis is sensitivity to sounds based on loudness. Misophonia is an intense, often visceral reaction to specific sounds, usually made by other people. Three distinct experiences, but with more in common than most people realize.

Why tinnitus is a symptom, not a disease. Just like pain, tinnitus is a signal, not a diagnosis. And just like pain, what you believe that signal means has an enormous effect on how your nervous system responds to it.

How fear and attention keep symptoms alive. Eighty percent of people who experience tinnitus are not bothered by it. The difference between that group and the group that suffers is not the sound itself. It is the relationship with the sound, and that relationship can change.

Somatic tracking for sound sensitivity. Dr. Dewey uses somatic tracking, which she calls sensation observation, with clients on their very first visit. She also uses imaginal exposure for hyperacusis, having clients imagine triggering sound environments and track what they notice in their bodies, before ever approaching the real thing.

The misophonia piece. Often dismissed as hopeless or untreatable with exposure, Dr. Dewey makes the case that the same neuroplastic tools apply, just applied carefully and starting from the mildest end of the trigger ladder.

Hope as a clinical intervention. One of the most moving moments in this episode is a story about an early tinnitus client who cried for twenty minutes when Daniel told him recovery was possible. He hadn't felt hope in six years. Shortly after, his tinnitus was mostly gone.

If you or someone you love has been told to just live with ringing, sensitivity, or sound reactions, this conversation is worth your time.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

The Way Out by Alan Gordon and Alon Ziv

Tinnitus: From Tyrant to Friend by Julian Cowan Hill

Demystifying Misophonia by Shaylynn Hayes-Raymond

Dr. Marcia Dewey on YouTube

Dr. Yonit Arthur, The Steady Coach: thesteadycoach.com (free tinnitus course available under Resources)

Dr. Annie Smith on YouTube

Resources and Additional Links
Learn More About Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT)
Subscribe for updates, resources, and insights in the world of chronic pain and Pain Reprocessing Therapy.
Patient Hub
Practitioner Hub
Learn about WellBody Psychotherapy and how our certified therapists and coaches can support your healing journey: Visit WellBody
Email Us: info@painreprocessingtherapy.com

What does recovery from chronic fatigue actually look like inside a therapy room?

In this episode, host Daniel Lyman shares something rare: real recordings from real sessions. Over seven weeks, he worked with a client named Eric, whose chronic fatigue began after a bout of mono. The infection resolved. The exhaustion did not.

Across eight session clips, you won't hear a dramatic turning point or one technique that fixed everything. You'll hear something more honest and more useful: recovery happening in real time, one small shift at a time.

What Eric and Daniel worked on together:

Taking breaks as a message to the nervous system. This wasn't productivity advice. For years, Eric had pushed through exhaustion without stopping, and his brain had quietly learned that rest wasn't safe, that something more urgent always came first. Taking breaks was a way of gently saying otherwise.

Actually feeling emotions, not just understanding them. Eric was good at analyzing his stress. He could explain it, trace it, put words to it. What he hadn't been doing was letting himself feel it. When he finally stopped and sat with the weight of a hard situation at work, something in his symptoms shifted too.

Changing what the symptoms mean. Eric had been quietly organized around the idea that something might still be physically wrong, a lingering infection, an immune system that hadn't fully recovered. Shifting that story, from "my body is damaged" to "my nervous system learned to stay on guard and hasn't gotten the update yet," changed how he related to everything that followed.

Bringing joy back in. Chronic symptoms have a way of making life smaller. Hobbies disappear. Activities get quietly abandoned. Part of Eric's recovery was deliberately reintroducing the things that reminded his nervous system what safety and aliveness actually feel like. For him, that meant cycling, time with his partner, and video games.

By the final session, Eric had cycled 30 kilometers, hiked five and a half kilometers with real elevation gain, noticed his concentration improving at work, and arrived at something that may matter more than any of it: he no longer believed that something was wrong with his body.

If you've ever had an illness that seemed to resolve on tests but left something behind in your body, you should give this a listen.

Resources and Additional Links
Learn More About Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT)
Subscribe for updates, resources, and insights in the world of chronic pain and Pain Reprocessing Therapy.
Patient Hub
Practitioner Hub
Learn about WellBody Psychotherapy and how our certified therapists and coaches can support your healing journey: Visit WellBody
Email Us: info@painreprocessingtherapy.com

In this episode, Daniel Lyman is joined by two of the leading minds in mind-body medicine — Dr. Mark Lumley and Christie Uipi — for a candid, collaborative case discussion unlike anything we've done before.

Dr. Mark Lumley is a distinguished professor of psychology at Wayne State University, co-developer of Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy (EAET), and one of the world's leading researchers on mind-body therapies for chronic pain. Christie Uipi is a psychotherapist, Executive Director of the Better Mind Center, a key contributor to the development of PRT, and a chronic pain overcomer herself.

Together, the three work through three real cases submitted by listeners:

Jill from Canada has lived with vestibular migraine and Persistent Postural-Perceptual Dizziness (PPPD) for six years after a lifetime of people-pleasing, boundary struggles, and pushing through stress. The group explores dizziness as an "escalation symptom" — what happens when the body has been ignored for too long — and how unexpressed emotions may be driving the nervous system's loudest signals.

Ben from Edinburgh has had chronic lower back and hip pain for 30 years. His herniated discs have largely resolved, but the pain remains — and it's worst in the middle of the night. The group digs into conditioned pain responses, the psychology of sleep and pain, and why rigidity in daily routines might be keeping the nervous system stuck.

Katerina has suffered from migraines since age 20 and is now dealing with up to 20 migraine days a month. She wants to know: is migraine actually neuroplastic? Can you treat it like neuroplastic pain if there's an underlying disease process? Dr. Lumley shares findings from a recent randomized controlled trial showing a 40% reduction in migraine frequency with group EAET, and the group unpacks the tension between traditional migraine management and a neuroplastic approach.

This episode is a masterclass in collaborative clinical thinking — and a reminder that no matter how long you've been suffering, there are still doors worth opening.

Resources and Additional Links
Learn More About Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT)
Subscribe for updates, resources, and insights in the world of chronic pain and Pain Reprocessing Therapy.
Patient Hub
Practitioner Hub
Learn about WellBody Psychotherapy and how our certified therapists and coaches can support your healing journey: Visit WellBody
Email Us: info@painreprocessingtherapy.com

Episode Title: When the Work Isn't Working

Season 2, Episode 1

Welcome to Season 2 of the Pain Reprocessing Therapy Podcast. Daniel Lyman, LCSW — founding member of the Pain Psychology Center and Executive Director of the Mind Body Therapy Center — takes over as host this season, bringing a deep clinical background in neuroplastic symptoms and chronic pain recovery.

For the first episode, Daniel sits down with Gabrielle Jacobs, LCSW, Associate Director of the Mind Body Therapy Center, to tackle one of the most frustrating experiences in recovery: doing everything right and still feeling stuck.

In this episode, Daniel and Gabrielle discuss:

Why understanding PRT and healing through PRT are two different things

The concept of experiential safety — and why waiting to feel safe before acting keeps people stuck

How relationships (with people, work, environments, and patterns) directly impact the nervous system's ability to heal

Living with intensity: why the same personality traits that make people great at life can quietly work against recovery

The difference between eliminating symptoms and changing the patterns that sustain them

Identity fusion — when pain becomes part of how someone understands themselves, and how to gently begin to loosen that grip

Secondary gain: what the symptom might be providing, and how to give yourself that thing without needing the pain to get it

Key concepts mentioned:

Experiential safety and graded exposure

The fear-avoidance model

Somatic tracking

All-or-nothing thinking in recovery

Secondary gain

Neuroplastic symptoms

Identity and recovery

About the hosts:

Daniel Lyman, LCSW, is a psychotherapist and founding member of the Pain Psychology Center, where Pain Reprocessing Therapy was originally developed. He is the Executive Director of the Mind Body Therapy Center, a therapy and coaching practice serving clients worldwide dealing with chronic somatic symptoms.

Gabrielle Jacobs, LCSW, is the Associate Director of the Mind Body Therapy Center and a clinician specializing in neuroplastic symptoms and chronic pain. She has been deeply involved in the clinical world of Pain Reprocessing Therapy for many years.

If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who might need to hear it.

Resources and Additional Links
Learn More About Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT)
Subscribe for updates, resources, and insights in the world of chronic pain and Pain Reprocessing Therapy.
Patient Hub
Practitioner Hub
Learn about WellBody Psychotherapy and how our certified therapists and coaches can support your healing journey: Visit WellBody
Email Us: info@painreprocessingtherapy.com