Smarter Marketer

Rocket Agency's Co-Founder and podcast host, James Lawrence, sits down with US-based agency-owner Jordan Slover to explore the common traits they’ve seen across high-performing marketers and marketing teams, drawing on 50 years combined experience working with over 500 businesses in Australia, the UK and the USA.

Key Takeaways:
Why clarity about what success looks like helps marketers stay focused
Why chasing every new platform, tool or tactic can do more harm than good
How a strong understanding of brand can improve long-term marketing performance
Why staying close to customers is one of the most valuable things a marketer can do
How genuinely considering the advice of specialists and building trust leads to stronger agency partnerships
Why relentless curiosity and a genuine desire to learn are essential marketing traits
How reading widely and staying across news and culture can make you a better marketer
Why marketers shouldn’t rely on AI to assess strategies without applying context and critical thinking

Guest:
Jordan Slover began his digital marketing career at Google, working in New York and London before moving to Australia. He later returned to the United States and founded Neon Ambition, a lead generation and digital marketing agency that works primarily with professional services businesses. Neon Ambition has appeared on the Inc. 5000 list of America’s fastest-growing private companies for three consecutive years.
You can follow Jordan on LinkedIn.

Find Us Online:
James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Buy Smarter Marketer:
Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

About the Podcast:
This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

AI search has moved far beyond theory. 14.3 million Australians now use ChatGPT, Gemini and Google AI Overviews to research and decide which brands they trust, often before they ever visit a website. But most marketers are still measuring the wrong metrics and applying SEO tactics that don’t fully translate to AI search.
In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, to unpack exactly what Rocket has learnt after three years of research, studying the landscape, testing and optimising brands for AI search.
Rather than discussing AI at a high level, this episode dives into the practical strategies that are delivering results today, including technical fixes, content strategy, brand sentiment, AI measurement and the framework Rocket uses with clients to improve visibility across different AI search tools.

Key takeaways:
Why AI search is already changing how customers buy
The STAR framework Rocket uses to build GEO strategies
The technical issues quietly preventing AI platforms from accessing many websites
Why trust, reviews and third-party sources matter more than ever
How to improve the information AI platforms use when describing your business
Why AI referral traffic dramatically understates AI’s real commercial impact
The metrics marketers should actually be measuring
Real examples of brands improving AI visibility through practical changes

Guest:
Joe Alder is Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO and one of Australia’s leading voices on the evolving AI search landscape. He has worked closely with Australian brands to help them navigate the shift from traditional search to AI-driven discovery, combining deep technical expertise with practical strategies for improving visibility across platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews and Gemini.
You can follow Joe on LinkedIn.

Find Us Online:
James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Buy Smarter Marketer:
Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

About the Podcast:
This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Marketing teams have never had more data available to them, yet many still find it hard (often harder than ever) to confidently answer a simple question: what’s actually driving growth?
In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder and Host James Lawrence sits down with Paul Sinkinson, Managing Director for APAC at Analytic Partners, to explore how marketing measurement is evolving and where marketers still get it wrong. They discuss why incrementality remains one of the most misunderstood concepts in marketing and how leading brands are balancing short-term optimisation with long-term growth.

Key Takeaways:
What has changed in marketing measurement over the past two years and why marketers are adopting a more holistic approach
The growing challenge of fragmented platform measurement and conflicting data sources
How marketers should think about attribution today and where it still provides value
What incrementality really means and why it matters more than most marketers realise
How marketers can build credibility with CFOs and leadership teams through better measurement
Why some brands gain market share during economic downturns while others pull back
How fast-growing brands can transition from performance-led growth to investing in future demand
Paul’s predictions on the future of measurement, brand building and distinctive brand assets

Guest:
Paul Sinkinson is the Managing Director of Sydney-based global marketing consultancy Analytic Partners, which delivers customised analytics that improve sales and marketing ROI. He has over 20 years of marketing analytics experience across many of Australia’s leading brands, and was previously a Partner at the Leading Edge, and Director at Nielsen, to name a few.
Follow Paul on LinkedIn.

Find Us Online:
James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Buy Smarter Marketer:
Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

Most marketers are under pressure to deliver results fast. But when all of the focus goes into capturing demand that already exists, businesses eventually limit their ability to grow. Sustainable growth comes from balancing the customers ready to buy today with those who will enter the market tomorrow.
In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with marketing effectiveness expert, entrepreneur and author James Hurman to unpack the ideas behind his new book, Future Demand. Together, they explore why so many businesses fall into the performance trap, what future demand actually means, why creativity remains one of marketing's most powerful growth levers, and how marketers can better communicate the value of long-term investment to CEOs, CFOs and boards.
Visit: futuredemand.com

Key Takeaways:
Why businesses that focus only on short-term performance eventually hit a growth ceiling
The ‘performance trap’ and how marketing teams unintentionally create it
The role creativity plays in capturing the attention of future buyers
Why marketers need to become better at communicating marketing's value internally
Practical ways to build support for long-term marketing investment across leadership teams
How companies can gradually shift from performance-only marketing to a more balanced growth strategy

Guest:
James Hurman is one of the world’s leading experts on marketing and advertising effectiveness. A former strategic planner, James has won more than 50 advertising effectiveness awards and was named the world’s number one strategic planning director in 2013. He is the co-founder of Tracksuit, Senior Advisor at Lions Advisory, Program Director of the Master of Advertising Effectiveness and author of Future Demand.
You can follow James on LinkedIn.

Find Us Online:
James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Buy Smarter Marketer:
Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

Few decisions have a bigger impact on marketing performance than choosing the right agency partner. Yet according to TrinityP3's latest State of the Pitch Report, many pitch processes are still creating frustration on both sides of the table. Agencies invest significant time and resources into pitches, while marketers often struggle with unclear scopes. More than anything, this leads to relationships starting on the wrong foot before a contract is even signed.
In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host James Lawrence sits down with TrinityP3 Founder and CEO Darren Woolley to unpack the findings from the 2026 State of the Pitch report. Together they discuss why some pitch processes consistently underperform and what marketers can do to build stronger, more productive agency relationships from the very beginning.
Read: The State of the Pitch Report

Key Takeaways:
The biggest findings from TrinityP3's 2026 State of the Pitch report
Why agency dissatisfaction with pitch processes remains stubbornly high
The impact poor pitch management can have on agency performance and marketer reputation
Why defining scope of work remains one of the biggest challenges in agency selection
How AI and changing agency pricing models are increasing the importance of better scoping
The ideal number of agencies to involve in a competitive pitch process
When marketers should pitch, and when alternative approaches may deliver better outcomes
The role procurement should play in agency selection and where it often goes wrong
How marketers can create stronger agency relationships before a contract is even signed
Best-practice feedback, communication and transparency throughout the pitch process

Guest:
Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director.
You can follow Darren on LinkedIn.

Find Us Online:
James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Buy Smarter Marketer:
Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm