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"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz
"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis
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  • Liability for AI Harms: How Ancient Law Can Govern Frontier Technology Risk, with Prof Gabriel Weil
    Gabriel Weil from Touro University argues that liability law may be our best tool for governing AI development, offering a framework that can adapt to new technologies without requiring new legislation. The conversation explores how negligence, products liability, and "abnormally dangerous activities" doctrines could incentivize AI developers to properly account for risks to third parties, with liability naturally scaling based on the dangers companies create. They examine concrete scenarios including the Character AI case, voice cloning risks, and coding agents, discussing how responsibility should be shared between model creators, application developers, and end users. Weil's most provocative proposal involves using punitive damages to hold companies accountable not just for actual harms, but for the magnitude of risks they irresponsibly create, potentially making even small incidents existentially costly for major AI companies. Sponsors: Labelbox: Labelbox pairs automation, expert judgment, and reinforcement learning to deliver high-quality training data for cutting-edge AI. Put its data factory to work for you, visit https://labelbox.com Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (06:01) Introduction and Overview (07:06) Liability Law Basics (Part 1) (18:16) Sponsors: Labelbox | Shopify (21:40) Liability Law Basics (Part 2) (27:44) Industry Standards Framework (Part 1) (39:30) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | NetSuite by Oracle (42:03) Industry Standards Framework (Part 2) (42:08) Character AI Case (51:23) Coding Agent Scenarios (01:06:50) Deepfakes and Attribution (01:17:07) Biorisk and Catastrophic (01:36:24) State Level Legislation (01:43:24) Private Governance Comparison (01:59:54) Policy Implementation Choices (02:08:07) China and PIBS (02:13:50) Outro
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  • Private Governance: Creating a Market in AI Regulation, with Dr. Gillian Hadfield & Andrew Freedman
    Dr. Gillian Hadfield from Johns Hopkins University and Andrew Freedman from Fathom discuss their innovative proposal to govern AI through private regulatory markets, which has been introduced as California's SB 813. Their system would separate democratic goal-setting from technical rule-making by having government bodies articulate safety outcomes while competitive private certifiers develop and enforce detailed standards, with companies receiving liability protection for compliance. The conversation explores how this market-based approach could create a "race to the top" in AI safety standards while remaining agile enough to keep pace with rapid technological development. Key challenges discussed include preventing a race to the bottom among certifiers, liability law interactions, and identifying qualified organizations to serve as effective private regulators. Sponsors: Fin: Fin is the #1 AI Agent for customer service, trusted by over 5000 customer service leaders and top AI companies including Anthropic and Synthesia. Fin is the highest performing agent on the market and resolves even the most complex customer queries. Try Fin today with our 90-day money-back guarantee - if you’re not 100% satisfied, get up to $1 million back. Learn more at fin.ai/cognitive Labelbox: Labelbox pairs automation, expert judgment, and reinforcement learning to deliver high-quality training data for cutting-edge AI. Put its data factory to work for you, visit https://labelbox.com Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:48) Introduction and Problem Overview (07:48) Regulatory Markets Concept Origins (17:14) Current Governance System Failures (Part 1) (19:28) Sponsors: Fin | Labelbox (22:42) Current Governance System Failures (Part 2) (25:30) Private Governance Mechanism Explained (Part 1) (35:06) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | NetSuite by Oracle (37:38) Private Governance Mechanism Explained (Part 2) (44:17) Liability Protection Framework (56:39) Race to Top Dynamics (01:07:24) Red Teaming Implementation Challenges (01:28:47) Insurance Alternative Approaches (01:53:51) Moving Forward Conclusions (01:55:11) Outro
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  • The Dawn of Dynamic AI: RFT Comes Online, w/ Predibase CEO Dev Rishi, from Inference by Turing Post
    This crossover episode from Inference by Turing Post features CEO Dev Rishi of Predibase discussing the shift from static to continuously learning AI systems that can adapt and improve from ongoing user feedback in production. Rishi provides grounded insights from deploying these dynamic models to real enterprise customers in healthcare and finance, exploring both the massive potential upside and significant safety challenges of reinforcement learning at scale. The conversation examines how "practical specialized intelligence" could reshape the AI landscape by filling economic niches efficiently, potentially offering a more stable alternative to AGI development. This discussion bridges theoretical concepts with real-world deployment experience, offering a practical preview of AI systems that "train once and learn forever." Turing Post channel:  @RealTuringPost  Turpin Post website: https://www.turingpost.com Sponsors: Google Gemini 2.5 Flash : Build faster, smarter apps with customizable reasoning controls that let you optimize for speed and cost. Start building at https://aistudio.google.com Labelbox: Labelbox pairs automation, expert judgment, and reinforcement learning to deliver high-quality training data for cutting-edge AI. Put its data factory to work for you, visit https://labelbox.com Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) Sponsor: Google Gemini 2.5 Flash (00:31) About the Episode (03:46) Training Models Continuously (05:03) Reinforcement Fine-Tuning Revolution (09:31) Agentic Workflows Challenges (Part 1) (12:51) Sponsors: Labelbox | Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (15:28) Agentic Workflows Challenges (Part 2) (15:41) ChatGPT Pivot Moment (19:59) Planning AI Future (24:45) Open Source Gaps (Part 1) (28:35) Sponsors: The AGNTCY | NetSuite by Oracle (30:50) Open Source Gaps (Part 2) (30:54) AGI vs Specialized (35:26) Happiness and Success (37:04) Outro
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  • Cracking the Medical Code: Why Cleveland Clinic Doctors Love Their Ambience Healthcare AI Scribe
    Brendan Fortuner from Ambience Healthcare and Ben Shahshahani from Cleveland Clinic discuss how AI is transforming medical documentation and coding in a healthcare system that spends $1 trillion annually on administrative tasks. They explore Ambience's technical breakthrough using OpenAI's Reinforcement Fine-Tuning to achieve medical coding accuracy that exceeds human doctors by 12 percentage points, including their specialty-by-specialty approach and solutions to reward hacking behavior. The conversation reveals key insights about AI deployment strategy, including how Cleveland Clinic achieved 75% voluntary adoption across 4,000 physicians after requiring just a single use of the AI scribe. This case study demonstrates what it takes to successfully implement AI tools in complex, high-stakes healthcare environments where user skepticism and regulatory requirements create significant deployment challenges. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:05) Introduction and Backstory (05:20) Ambiance Healthcare Overview (07:53) AI Adoption in Healthcare (11:11) Documentation Pain Points (Part 1) (16:11) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | The AGNTCY (18:11) Documentation Pain Points (Part 2) (19:00) Product Architecture Deep Dive (26:23) Technical Evolution and Specialization (Part 1) (32:05) Sponsor: NetSuite by Oracle (33:28) Technical Evolution and Specialization (Part 2) (33:50) Healthcare Coding Challenges (48:37) Reinforcement Fine-Tuning Implementation (58:13) Task Prioritization Framework (01:08:40) Adoption Strategies Culture (01:12:12) Cost Lessons Grader Selection (01:18:33) Future Directions Patient Products (01:24:53) Closing Thoughts Opportunities (01:27:58) Outro
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  • The Data Factory: Inside the $100B Race for Post-Training Supremacy, with Labelbox CEO Manu Sharma
    Manu Sharma, founder and CEO of Labelbox, explains how frontier AI training data has evolved far beyond simple labeling to sophisticated reinforcement learning environments where domain experts create "gyms" for models to develop complex skills. With every Western frontier lab now spending over a billion dollars annually on training data, the conversation traces the shift from supervised learning to reinforcement learning from verifiable rewards, particularly for coding, mathematical reasoning, and computer use. Sharma reveals how Labelbox operates as a vertically integrated data factory, conducting over 2,000 AI-powered expert interviews daily and paying top specialists more than $250,000 annually. The discussion provides essential insights into the red-hot training data market that's reshaping AI development following major deals like Meta's $15B acquisition of Scale AI. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk
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About "The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co
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