The Unburdened Leader

When the stakes rise and more is on the line, everything about visibility shifts –– what it means, what it costs, and what it asks of you.
And if you ever experienced bullying, relational trauma, betrayal, or abuse, visibility can be more than just awkward or uncomfortable. Unprocessed echoes of those burdens can make the past feel like it is happening in the present.
We have to do the work of building more trust within, getting clear on who and what really matters, and learning to follow our values even when we do not know the results.
As my guest today reminded me, when we go silent, we may feel safe, but our voices are not out there, and others will step in to define the direction of conversations and the topics that matter most to us.
Showing up and letting people see and hear you isn’t always easy, but with practice and courage, we can reshape the narratives we carry about ourselves and our visibility.
Mike Ganino works with professional speakers, keynote speakers, and executives to help them create transformative speaking experiences worthy of standing ovations. As a keynote director with a background as an actor, writer, director, producer, hospitality executive, and corporate trainer, Mike learned to view storytelling and performance from the audience’s perspective and uses these insights and experiences to help his clients develop talks and performances that go beyond just wowing the audience to truly transform their thinking.

Listen to the full episode to hear:
How a fourth-grade substitute teacher showed Mike the power of making people feel seen
Why getting comfortable with visibility requires us to address the relational wounds that have kept us quiet
What we can learn from actors about the choices we make as we show up and interact with others
Why developing as a speaker is a physical practice before it’s an intellectual practice
Two essential elements for telling an effective story
How fears of losing status and being misunderstood keeps us from showing up for ourselves and others
 
Learn more about Mike Ganino:
https://mikeganino.com/
Instagram: @mikeganino
Facebook: @mikeganino
Connect on LinkedIn
Make a Scene: Storytelling, Stage Presence, and the Art of Being Unforgettable in Every Spotlight
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rebeccaching.com
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Resources:
The Face: A Natural History, Daniel McNeill
Ariana Grande
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
Chapters:
(00:43) - Introduction

(08:36) - Fourth Grade Lessons

(13:28) - Healing Through Visibility

(16:59) - Safe Reps on Video

(21:40) - Authenticity vs Performance

(25:29) - Questioning the 'new and fresh'

(28:59) - Top Visibility Blocks

(31:24) - Gendered Speaking Habits

(37:36) - Storytelling For an Integrated Life

(41:05) - Status Loss and Feedback

(45:45) - Who you take notes from matters

(49:56) - Inner Child And Leadership

(50:51) - Defining Leadership

(52:00) - Embracing the Complexities

(53:56) - Rapid Fire

(58:05) - Making Connections

(59:00) - Closing Thoughts

A lot of people feel like they know who they're supposed to be, how they're supposed to show up, and what they're supposed to value, and they assume those things come from themselves instead of external influences. 

But we all have internalized beliefs and expectations from others, our culture, and the systems we live in. It takes a beat, sometimes a long one, to get clear on who you actually are and what is actually important to you. It requires building the kind of deep self-trust that allows you to act from your values even when the world is suggesting otherwise.

And if you carry relational wounds or other interpersonal or socio-cultural burdens, those experiences can slow down or block your capacity to deepen self-trust, trust in others, grow in courage, and fully inhabit your whole story. That is not a character flaw. It is a developmental reality.

My guest today models what becomes possible when you stop performing the version of yourself the world approved of and start trusting yourself and leading from that space. She is building a career and a creative practice rooted in self-trust and values alignment, and she is far from done.

MILCK, born Connie K. Lim, is a self-proclaimed gentle rebel whose artistry and advocacy is fueled by her music. Her breakout anthem “Quiet” became a global sensation, championing women’s rights and resonating with movements around the globe. MILCK has collaborated with notable artists such as John Legend, Natasha Bedingfield, Phillipa Soo, Ani DiFranco, Aloe Blacc, and LeAnn Rimes, blending soulful melodies with poignant, socially conscious lyrics. 

Beyond the recording industry, MILCK is expanding her creative reach into musical theater, advocacy, and mentorship; MILCK and artists Sam Chanse, Jess Mcleod, and AG have partnered with La Jolla Playhouse to develop The Family Album, an award-winning seriocomedy musical. Inspired by MILCK's life journey, the musical explores themes of healing and family.

Listen to the full episode to hear:
How “Quiet” began as a means to process her own story and turned into an anthem
How personal, creative, and therapeutic supports came together to help Connie find her truth and her voice and connect with audiences
The discouragement of her dreams Connie received as a kid and why her younger self is delighted with her now
How working on The Family Album has been healing for Connie and her family
Developing the confidence and self-trust to push boundaries and be an emotional bridge
How the all-female creative team behind The Family Album musical came together

Learn more about MILCK:
Website
Instagram: @milckmusic
MILCK on Bandcamp
Get tickets to The Family Album

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rebeccaching.com
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The Unburdened Leader on Substack
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Resources:
Childhood and Society, Erik H Erikson
In Over Our Heads: The Mental Demands of Modern Life, Robert Kegan
Roxy Music - Avalon
Couples Therapy
Tears For Fears

Chapters:
(00:37) - Introduction

(07:35) - Meet Connie Kim aka MILCK

(13:36) - Quiet - Origins and Cost

(18:22) - Therapy and Support Mirrors

(20:55) - Musical Beginnings

(25:31) - Younger Self and Healing

(29:14) - Turning Life Into A Musical

(32:36) - Fighting to Stay Connected to Family

(37:15) - Pushing Boundaries for Healing and Growing

(41:19) - Conflict and the Wisdom of the Past

(46:12) - Family Album Origin Story

(55:35) - Opening Night Emotions

(57:29) - Defining Leadership

(58:48) - Quick Fire Questions

(01:02:55) - How to Connect

(01:04:34) - Closing Thoughts

How many times have you talked yourself out of pursuing an opportunity, telling yourself it wasn't for you, that you weren’t ready, or you weren’t qualified?
What if that hesitation wasn't self-awareness but a script you internalized?
Many women have a complicated relationship with their ambitions for greater leadership and greater wealth. And it isn’t because women are somehow inherently less suited for leadership or financial independence. The systems of power, patriarchy, sexism, and misogyny that we live in every day shape the voice in women’s heads that tells them they’re not meant to be a leader.
We are in a political and cultural moment where women’s rights and autonomy are facing incredible pushback at all levels. It’s vital that we examine our internalized biases towards ourselves and others, where we limit our ambitions for roles we have the skills and abilities for, and where we’re giving up our power because of the stories we’ve been told by our society.
My guest today is a beautiful example of a woman who hadn’t considered herself for a CEO role, but who stepped into the position and has grown into the kind of leader we just might need most right now. In our conversation, we talk a lot about women and finances and also about what we believe about our abilities and the opportunities we deserve to pursue.
Sylvia Kwan is a Chartered Financial Analyst with more than 30 years of industry experience. Prior to Ellevest, she founded SimplySmart Asset Management and held senior portfolio management positions at Financial Engines and Charles Schwab. Sylvia serves on the Board of Exit 182, the investment committee that oversees the endowment of Grinnell College.
 

Listen to the full episode to hear: 
How Sylvia’s commitment to Ellevest’s mission bolstered her through the abrupt and sometimes isolating shift into being CEO
How she navigated the tension between wanting to be transparent with her team and needing to project calm
The scripts about who she is and the work she excels at that Sylvia had to rewrite, and why it’s a continuing process
How the financial industry subconsciously reinforces sexist ideas about women and money
Why taking the stigma out of women talking about money is a key piece of closing the gender wealth gap
How women accruing wealth actually supports communities and creates more equity
How convoluted jargon and perfectionism keep women from getting started with investing
Learn more about Sylvia Kwan, PhD, CFA, CAIA: 
Ellevest
Instagram: @ellevest
Connect on LinkedIn
Learn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.com
Work With Rebecca
The Unburdened Leader on Substack
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Resources: 
EP 88: Right-Use-of-Power: Navigating Leadership Dynamics with Dr. Cedar Barstow
Right Use of Power: The Heart of Ethics: A Guide and Resource for Professional Relationships, Dr. Cedar Barstow
The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love, bell hooks
Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny, Kate Manne 
Women leaders make work better. Here’s the science behind how to promote them
Power with purpose: How women's leadership boosts the economy and society | Devex
Whidbey, T Kira Madden
CeCe Winans - Goodness of God
Ted Lasso
Chapters:
(00:42) - Introduction

(11:55) - Sudden CEO Transition

(14:15) - Self Trust and Mission

(17:45) - Leading Through Uncertainty

(22:48) - Rewriting the Leadership Script

(27:10) - Finance Industry Gender Gap

(33:48) - Myths About Women and Wealth

(36:24) - Complexity Masquerading as Sophistication

(39:46) - Roadblocks and Getting Started Now

(44:31) - Defining Leadership

(46:22) - Embracing the Complexities

(48:27) - Quick Fire Questions

(53:35) - How to Connect

(54:26) - Closing Thoughts

Say the word ambition, especially around women, and it brings up a complicated mix of emotions and beliefs.
If you're not succeeding, you're not ambitious enough. If you are succeeding, wanting a lot, and going for it, you're too ambitious, and you get penalized or punished. It happens at work, at home, and in the communities we move through every day.
There are so many mixed messages about ambition and success coming at us from every direction. And it's not just imposed from the outside.
For many women, those messages get internalized and shape the way we present ourselves and communicate about our work and personal lives. We start to police our own ambition, and we police each other's ambition.
My guest today names the invisible norms around women’s ambitions, and calls out the ways that organizations perpetuate bias, even as they think they’re playing fair. Her work is extensively researched, tracing the roots of the tension around ambition, and also offers language and an opportunity for us to reclaim our ambitions together.
 
Stefanie O’Connell is an award-winning journalist and author of The Ambition Penalty: How Corporate Culture Tells Women to Step Up– and Then Pushes Them Down. Her work dismantles the myths keeping women from equitable pay, leadership and power — one data point at a time.

Listen to the full episode to hear:
The material costs of what happens when women speak up, lean in, and get ambitious
How implicit and gendered double standards around power keep women out of leadership
Why encouraging ambition in girls doesn’t translate into celebrating ambition in women
How people and organizations that believe they are meritocratic end up reinforcing the most bias
Why we can’t self-optimize our way out of systemic inequality, and why we need collective action
Six key elements for reframing burnout as an environmental problem, not a personal one
Why we need to push back against framing women being pushed out of the work force as “empowerment” and challenge sexism in our everyday lives 
Learn more about Stefanie O'Connell:
Website
Too Ambitious on Substack
Instagram: @stefanieoconnell
Threads: @stefanieoconnell
TikTok: @stefaniemoconnell
The Ambition Penalty
Learn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.com
Work With Rebecca
The Unburdened Leader on Substack
Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email
Resources:
EP 155: Hidden Cost of Caretaking at Work: Nilofer Merchant on Invisible Norms Limiting Your Leadership
Stop Punishing Women for Being Ambitious | Bloomberg
Maslach, Christina. (1998). A Multidimensional Theory of Burnout. 10.1093/oso/9780198522799.003.0004. 
My Mother's Daughter: Finding Myself in My Family's Fractured Past, Tracy Clark-Flory 
Ragtime (2025 Broadway Cast Recording)
Mad Men
Chapters:
(00:07) - Introduction

(07:14) - Meet Stephanie OConnell

(10:30) - The Ambition Penalty

(14:06) - The Ambition Double-Standard

(19:51) - The Shame of Ambition

(22:34) - Women Colluding with The Harm

(28:50) - Hustle Culture

(32:26) - Maslach's Burnout Framework

(39:01) - Reframing Empowerment

(42:06) - Leveraging our Collective Power

(48:16) - Quick Fire Questions

(53:02) - How To Connect

(54:05) - Closing Thoughts

Some words and experiences come with a lot of baggage, conjuring up fear, stigma, and shame.
But being afraid or ashamed doesn’t protect us from those experiences or those words. It just keeps us from really understanding them or being able to talk about them. And what we can’t process for ourselves, we can’t help those we love and lead with either.
In the clinical space, dissociation is one of those words and experiences that is met with a lot of discomfort. How people were taught and trained to address dissociation often perpetuates shame and stigma, and its pop culture depictions and usage haven’t helped either.
But my guest today has spent her career making the case that dissociation isn’t rare, or even necessarily pathological; it’s actually a common and deeply human experience that ranges from everyday zoning out to more complex presentations that do need support.
And as you’ll hear, Dr. Jamie Marich believes understanding this spectrum isn’t just a matter of clinical education, but is vital for our own self-knowledge and how we lead others.
Dr. Jamie Marich, PhD, LPCC-S, REAT (she/they) began her career as a humanitarian aid worker in Bosnia-Herzegovina from 2000-2003, primarily teaching English and music. Jamie travels internationally teaching on topics related to trauma, EMDR therapy, expressive arts, mindfulness, and yoga, while maintaining a private practice and online education operations in her home base of Akron, OH. Marich is the founder of the Institute for Creative Mindfulness and the developer of the Dancing Mindfulness approach to expressive arts therapy, and the author of several books on EMDR, dissociation, mindfulness, recovery, and more.

Listen to the full episode to hear:
The stakes of identifying as having a dissociative disorder, and why Jamie felt it was vital for them speak up anyway
How no longer being “zipped in” has given Jamie access to true authenticity and flow in her personal and professional lives
Defining dissociation at its most basic, and how and why it shows up in everyday situations
Why having parts is not necessarily pathological and why for some people those entities become so distinct
The most persistent and harmful myths about dissociative disorders, for both patients and providers
Why Jamie starts trainings with having people learn to recognize their own dissociative tendencies
Why DID is not a TikTok fad, and why more recognition and discussion is better than ignorance

Learn more about Dr. Jamie Marich:
Website
Redefine Therapy
The Institute for Creative Mindfulness
Instagram: @drjamiem, @traumatherapistrants 
TikTok: @traumatherapistrants
YouTube: @DrJamieMM
Dissociation Made Simple: A Stigma-Free Guide to Embracing Your Dissociative Mind and Navigating Daily Life

Learn more about Rebecca:
rebeccaching.com
Work With Rebecca
The Unburdened Leader on Substack
Sign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader Email

Resources:
Coming Out As Plural - Psychotherapy Networker
Fighting Dissociation Phobia and Coming Out as a Professional with a Dissociative Disorder
Am I In A Therapy Cult?
Decolonizing Therapy: Oppression, Historical Trauma, and Politicizing Your Practice, Jennifer Mullan, PsyD
Jasmine Adams, LCSW, PMH-C - The Institute for Creative Mindfulness
Plural Pride Meets LGBTQ+ Pride: Webinar Replay
Plural Pride Meets LGBTQ+ Pride: Katie Keech and Dr. Jamie Marich
Healing Dissociative Identity Disorder - Psychotherapy Networker
Truth Demands: A Memoir of Murder, Oil Wars, and the Rise of Climate Justice, Abby Reyes
"Your Heart Knows the Way Home," Te Martin
The Testaments
The Late Show with Stephen Colbert
John R. Mabry
Chapters:

(03:57) - Welcome Dr. Jamie Marich

(04:30) - Coming Out as Plural

(06:37) - Why Speak Up

(12:09) - The Power and Process of Coming Out

(14:48) - Authenticity and Zipped Up

(17:50) - Slow Steps to Visibility

(21:17) - AUTHENTICITY

(27:22) - Defining Dissociation

(31:40) - Protection vs Meeting Needs

(34:49) - Harmful Dissociation Myths

(38:12) - Reducing Fear Through Self Work

(41:19) - Am I In A Therapy Cult?

(43:41) - DID Is Not A Fad

(46:26) - Stop Policing Trauma

(49:36) - Gifts Of Dissociation

(51:30) - Teaching DID With Humility

(53:25) - Too Grounded To Be Traumatized?

(57:42) - Myths Media And Parts

(59:06) - Rapid Fire Questions

(01:04:05) - Where to Connect

(01:05:19) - Closing Thoughts