Optimal Protein Podcast with Vanessa Spina

Fasted training is one of the most persistent fat-loss myths—and in this episode, Dr. Katie Hirsch breaks down what actually matters for women: training quality, muscle preservation, and metabolic health.
We unpack why "burning more fat during a workout" is often the wrong target, and how a small amount of protein (or EAAs) before training can change perceived exertion, improve workout output, and potentially increase post-workout energy expenditure—especially in women who are prone to under-fueling.
We also dive into muscle quality (not just muscle size), why it matters for insulin sensitivity and body composition, and what changes in peri/post-menopause can mean for amino acid delivery to muscle—and how to train and eat to stay lean, strong, and metabolically resilient.
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Episode Topics Covered
Fasted vs. fed training for fat loss

Protein vs. carbs pre-workout

Energy availability and women's physiology

Essential amino acids + HIIT

Muscle turnover, energy expenditure, and fat oxidation

Protein timing, dosing, and distribution

Muscle quality (echo intensity), intramuscular fat, and metabolic health

Adiposity spillover, visceral fat, and muscle infiltration

Perimenopause/postmenopause, estrogen, vascular function, and anabolic resistance

Simple strategies for sustainable body recomposition

Dr. Katie Hirsch is an exercise physiologist and sports nutrition researcher focused on protein metabolism, body composition, energy expenditure, HIIT, muscle quality, and female-specific physiology, including changes across perimenopause and postmenopause.
(As mentioned in the episode: she's wrapping up publications on improved methods to characterize hormone profiles and exploring new ways to use bioelectrical impedance outcomes like phase angle to better capture muscle quality and related physiology.)
Protein-Sparing Modified Fasting Library (Coming Soon)
Vanessa shares her behind-the-scenes system built from the approach she used to lose 14+ lbs of body fat while preserving lean mass.
Join the waitlist: Sign up HERE to be the first to know when it has been released!
👉 Subscribe, rate, and review the Optimal Protein Podcast to support the show and help bring you more evidence-based conversations on fat loss, protein, and muscle-centric nutrition.
Get 20% off the Tone Device to try on a PSMF Day! Shop the collection HERE and use the code VANESSA
Get delicious high protein meal recipes! Connect with Vanessa on Instagram @ketogenicgirl
🔴 Tone LUX Red Light Therapy Get 20% off the Tone LUX Crystal Red Light Therapy collection including the Crystal Mask and accessories the with the code VANESSA HERE
Follow @optimalproteinpodcast on Instagram to see visuals and posts mentioned on this podcast.
Link to join the Facebook group for the podcast
The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. Consult with a healthcare professional before making significant changes to your diet or exercise regimen.

Is fasting really the best way to lose fat — or is there a smarter, more strategic approach?
In this masterclass episode, Vanessa introduces a powerful new concept: Protein Fasting — a structured approach using PSMF (Protein-Sparing Modified Fast) days to optimize fat loss, suppress appetite naturally, protect muscle, and potentially tap into fasting-like cellular signaling.
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You'll learn:
• Why alternate day fasting isn't superior for fat loss
• How ketones directly suppress hunger hormones
• Why protein is the most powerful appetite-regulating macronutrient
• The optimal protein intake range for protecting muscle during fat loss
• What a new human autophagy study actually reveals
• Why 1–3 strategic PSMF days per week may outperform traditional fasting
If you've ever struggled with hunger while dieting — this episode will change how you think about strategenic fat loss periods without dealing with hunger adn cravings.
This episode also serves as a scientific primer for Vanessa's structured PSMF Library. Sign up HERE to be the first to know when the new PSMF Library has been released!
BOOST YOUR COLLAGEN & ELASTIN with RED LIGHT THERAPY! Save 20% on all Tone Lux Red Light therapy with the code VANESSA! Learn more about the  TONE LUX Crystal red light therapy mask and the brand new accessory the TONE LUX CONTOUR for the neck and décollete
Vanessa discusses how using the Tone Device is a proxy for fat loss and autophay on Protein Sparing Modified Fasting (PSMF) days! 👉 Use code VANESSA for 20% off HERE
Get my free NEW high-protein keto guide: The Keto Reset eBook
Free high-protein keto guide: The Keto Reset eBook
👤 Connect with Vanessa:
• Instagram: @ketogenicgirl
📱 Follow @ketogenicgirl for the latest studies and strategies on fat loss and protein optimization
📸 Follow @optimalproteinpodcast for episode visuals and updates
💬 Join the Facebook group: Optimal Protein Podcast Community
🎙 The content in this podcast is for informational purposes only and not nutritional or medical advice. Always consult your healthcare provider before making major dietary or lifestyle changes.
As always: prioritize protein.
📚 SCIENTIFIC REFERENCES
Trepanowski JF, et al. (2017). Effect of Alternate-Day Fasting vs Daily Calorie Restriction on Weight Loss and Cardioprotection. JAMA Internal Medicine.

Stubbs BJ, et al. (2018). On the metabolism of exogenous ketones and their effects on appetite. Obesity.

Sumithran P, et al. (2013). Ketosis and appetite-mediating nutrients after weight loss. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

Arciero PJ, et al. (2016). Protein pacing caloric restriction improves body composition and metabolic parameters. Nutrients.

Hector AJ & Phillips SM. (2018). Protein recommendations for weight loss in athletes. International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism.

Jäger R, et al. (2017). ISSN Position Stand: Protein and Exercise. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition.

Burns L, et al. (2025). Effects of low- vs higher-protein fasting-mimicking diets on autophagy and body composition. Clinical Nutrition.

Timeline Mitopure Gummies — The #1 Urolithin A supplement for energy and healthy aging, now in delicious strawberry gummies. Get 20% off at timeline.com/vanessa
Perimenopause isn't just about estrogen. If you're eating less, working out more, and still gaining belly fat or losing muscle, the real issue may be metabolic — not hormonal.
In this episode, Vanessa sits down with Dr. Nicole Huffman to unpack what's actually happening beneath the surface in midlife: rising insulin resistance, stress-driven blood sugar swings, declining metabolic flexibility, and the silent loss of muscle that lowers resting metabolic rate.
They explore why ketosis can be a powerful tool during perimenopause — not as a rigid "diet," but as a metabolic state that stabilizes glucose, reduces inflammation, and helps restore the internal environment hormones rely on.
They also explore the powerful connection between ketosis and fertility — including insulin resistance, progesterone signaling, PCOS, and why metabolic "safety signals" matter for ovulation.
You'll also hear:
Why muscle preservation changes everything after 40

The surprising connection between stress, insulin, and progesterone

Why some women regain ovulation when blood sugar improves

How to approach keto in a flexible, woman-centered way

Why protein + lifting + sleep are non-negotiable

Vanessa also shares her experience using protein-sparing modified fasting (PSMF) days to drive fat loss, body recomposition and ketogenesis while protecting lean mass — and why this may be a more effective strategy for women over traditional fasting.
If you've ever said, "My body doesn't respond like it used to," this episode explains why — and what to do about it.
Dr. Nicole Huffman also shares her Radiant Woman Method, a 7-week live program designed to help women restore metabolic balance during perimenopause. Learn more about Dr. Huffman's Radiant Woman Method Here
👉 Subscribe, rate, and review the Optimal Protein Podcast to support the show and help bring you more evidence-based conversations on fat loss, protein, and muscle-centric nutrition.
Get 20% off the Tone Device to try on a PSMF Day! Shop the collection HERE and use the code VANESSA
Get delicious high protein meal recipes! Connect with Vanessa on Instagram @ketogenicgirl
🔴 Tone LUX Red Light Therapy Get 20% off the Tone LUX Crystal Red Light Therapy collection including the Crystal Mask and accessories the with the code VANESSA HERE
Follow @optimalproteinpodcast on Instagram to see visuals and posts mentioned on this podcast.
Link to join the Facebook group for the podcast
The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. Consult with a healthcare professional before making significant changes to your diet or exercise regimen.

Start of episode recap is at 13.41
In today's Friday solocast, Vanessa Spina breaks down the biggest takeaways from her interview with Dr. Paul Moughan—one of the world's leading experts on protein quality, amino acid digestibility, and how much of the protein you eat actually becomes usable by the body.
If you've ever wondered why fat loss stalls in a deficit, why muscle can drop even when you "hit your protein," or why metabolic rate seems to slow during dieting—this episode explores a rarely discussed variable: utilizable protein and amino acid delivery to tissues. 
🧠 IQBAR – Try the Ultimate Sampler Pack: IQBARs, IQMIX, and IQJOE! Text VANESSA to 64000 for a 20% off discount code
What you'll learn in this episode:
Why protein grams on labels don't equal protein your body can use

The difference between total protein vs. utilizable protein (what actually reaches tissues)

How DIAAS (Digestible Indispensable Amino Acid Score) upgrades outdated protein scoring systems

Why fat loss diets can unintentionally accelerate lean mass loss if protein quality is low

How the body prioritizes amino acids (and why muscle can become the "last resort")

The overlooked role of the gut's massive protein turnover and amino acid demand

Why low protein quality can contribute to metabolic adaptation (lower RMR over time)

Why women in perimenopause/menopause, dieters, vegans, and older adults may be more vulnerable

The collagen "protein" mistake: why collagen is not a primary protein source for preserving muscle

Practical strategies to improve outcomes without simply "eating more protein"

The future of protein labeling: why "digestible protein" may eventually replace total protein on labels

BOOST YOUR COLLAGEN & ELASTIN with RED LIGHT THERAPY! Save 20% on all Tone Lux Red Light therapy with the code VANESSA! Learn more about the  TONE LUX Crystal red light therapy mask and the brand new accessory the TONE LUX CONTOUR for the neck and décollete
Vanessa discusses how using the Tone Device is a proxy for fat loss and autophay on Protein Sparing Modified Fasting (PSMF) days! 👉 Use code VANESSA for 20% off HERE
Get my free NEW high-protein keto guide: The Keto Reset eBook
Free high-protein keto guide: The Keto Reset eBook
👤 Connect with Vanessa:
• Instagram: @ketogenicgirl
📱 Follow @ketogenicgirl for the latest studies and strategies on fat loss and protein optimization
📸 Follow @optimalproteinpodcast for episode visuals and updates
💬 Join the Facebook group: Optimal Protein Podcast Community
🎙 The content in this podcast is for informational purposes only and not nutritional or medical advice. Always consult your healthcare provider before making major dietary or lifestyle changes.

Protein grams don't tell the full story. In this episode, Vanessa Spina is joined by Paul Moughan, a world authority on protein quality and amino acid digestibility, to explore why fat loss can stall and muscle can be lost — even on a high-protein diet.
Dr. Moughan, a Distinguished Professor at Massey University and architect of DIAAS, explains why protein absorbed and delivered to muscle matters more than protein consumed.
Timeline Mitopure Gummies — The #1 Urolithin A supplement for energy and healthy aging, now in delicious strawberry gummies. Get 20% off at timeline.com/vanessa
You'll learn:
Why identical protein intakes can produce very different body composition outcomes
How low-quality protein may drive hunger and muscle loss during dieting
Why protein grams on labels are misleading for fat loss and recomposition
This episode isn't about eating more protein — it's about eating protein that actually counts.
👉 Subscribe, rate, and review the Optimal Protein Podcast to support the show and help bring you more evidence-based conversations on fat loss, protein, and muscle-centric nutrition.
Get 20% off the Tone Device to try on a PSMF Day! Shop the collection HERE and use the code VANESSA
Get delicious high protein meal recipes! Connect with Vanessa on Instagram @ketogenicgirl
🔴 Tone LUX Red Light Therapy Get 20% off the Tone LUX Crystal Red Light Therapy collection including the Crystal Mask and accessories the with the code VANESSA HERE
Follow @optimalproteinpodcast on Instagram to see visuals and posts mentioned on this podcast.
Link to join the Facebook group for the podcast
The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. Consult with a healthcare professional before making significant changes to your diet or exercise regimen.