#17 PEM: measuring the threshold and understanding the cause with Dr. Rob Wüst
What is the threshold over which PEM is induced in chronic illness? This is a hugely important question for sufferers, and one for which Rob Wüst is trying to find an answer.
Assistant Professor in Musculoskeletal Health and Physiology at the Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, Dr. Rob Wüst is able to see the physiological impact of Long Covid and ME/CFS in skeletal muscle abnormalities.
In his latest study (currently in preprint) he finds that “Skeletal muscle properties in long COVID and ME/CFS differ from those induced by bed rest”, and the abnormalities that he observes in the muscles of this cohort of patients correlate with the Post-Exertional Malaise (PEM), autonomic dysfunction and wearable data that he gathered in another recent study.
In this week’s episode Wüst explains to Emily Kate Stephens how he observed exercise-induced worsening of symptoms in almost half of Long Covid patients when they exceeded their ‘ventilatory threshold’ but the much of the time this is from everyday activities such as hanging the laundry or carrying the groceries. But they discus
He discusses the physiological clues emerging from exercise testing and muscle biopsies in patients when viewed alongside wearable data and expounds on the circulating theories on this, including mitochondrial dysfunction, local hypoxia, and ion channel abnormalities. And he explores the parallels and distinctions between Long Covid and ME/CFS and why interdisciplinary collaboration is vital to unlock these complex, multi-systemic diseases.
The Impact of Bedrest Study 2024
Skeletal muscle adaptations and PEM in LC 2024
Should we be careful with exercise in PEM in LC? 2025
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#16 Why are women more susceptible to complex illness? Predicting chronic conditions with Michal Caspi Tal PhD
This week’s episode takes us on an exploration of the exciting work coming out of M.I.T’s Biological Engineering teams into understanding infection-associated illnesses and the emerging field of menstruation science.
Emily Kate Stephens is joined by Dr Michal Caspi Tal, Principal Scientist of the Tal Research Group and Associate Scientific Director at the Center for Gynepathology Research. She is responsible for innovative research seeking answers about the the overlap between infection, immune dysregulation, and chronic illness; alongside working to break menstrual taboos, creating a scientific framework for understanding the implications of the female reproductive system on our health and our sickness
Her lab has launched MIT MAESTRO study, a groundbreaking research initiative using leading edge technology, aimed at uncovering the links between infection-associated illness, immune dysregulation and mitochondrial dysfunction, juxtaposing Long Covid against acute and Chronic Lyme. The team study the way in which pathogens interact with the immune system, genetics, and each other to create overlaps with POTS, MCAS, gynaecological conditions and connective tissue disorders such as hEDS.
The Tal Research Group is working to bridge engineering and biology to fill critical research gaps— particularly around chronic illnesses such as endometriosis, acute and chronic Lyme disease, Long Covid & ME/CFS. Their work is developing predictive diagnostics and illness trajectory maps to help us understand who is at risk of developing infection-associated chronic conditions, and why.
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#15 Monoclonal Antibodies and the Future of Complex Illness Treatment with Dr Nancy Klimas
A new clinical trial is underway to test a monoclonal antibody as a treatment for Long Covid.
In this week’s episode Emily Kate Stephens sits down with Dr Nancy Klimas at Nova Southeastern University (NSU), Florida, to discuss the trial alongside the groundbreaking research and integrative care, that is taking place at the Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine, looking at Long Covid, ME/CFS and other complex conditions.
The trial, a collaboration between Nova Southeastern University and the Schmidt Initiative for Long Covid, will use an AstraZeneca drug, which is already approved for COVID-19 prevention in those with compromised immunity, on 100 patients in a double-blind, randomised controlled trail. And Dr Klimas, a globally recognized expert in immunology and chronic illness, believes that this has the potential to be a curative treatment for the disease in around 40% of patients.
Alongside this new study, we discuss the role of computational modelling and the progress that AI is having in uncovering hidden patterns in chronic disease; the way in which gender differences shape inflammatory responses and treatment strategies; and the critical importance of restorative sleep, nutrition, and anti-inflammatory approaches in improving the lives of patients.
We discuss some of the other studies in which the INIM are involved – the Reboot Study, Microbiome research, probiotics, and the COVIDUP study, along with the power of international collaboration, the challenges of funding and the amazing contribution of patients.
Dr. Nancy Klimas is Director of the Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine at NSU, and a leading voice in translational research focused on chronic illness, ME/CFS, Gulf War Syndrome, and Long Covid. With decades of experience in immunology and clinical science, Dr. Klimas is a champion for an integrative, personalized approach to patient care.
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#14 Wearable technology and patient-led innovation with Dr. David Putrino
Data gathered from wearable technology can warn of impending symptom exacerbation in complex chronic illness a new study has found.
In this week’s episode Dr. David Putrino discusses the findings. He, in collaboration with leading immunologists, microbiologists and data scientists, tracked data points from 5000 Visible app users (who enrolled in the study) to establish that HRV and resting heart rate can be used to predict a crash. Analyzing more than 55,000 readings over 1000 days they were able to see changes in the autonomic nervous system of contributors using this biometric data. The largest study of its kind, these findings have the potential to provide the basis for individualised care strategies for this enormous cohort of patients.
Here we discuss the function and dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system. Dr. Putrino gives us an overview of heart rate variability, the way in which it fluctuates, what its readings can determine about our health and ways in which these can be influenced. We talk through the power of breathwork including two of Dr Putrino’s studies – on resonant breathing and hypocapnia – showing the way in which breathing impacts our physiology but determining that we have innate power to influence our health.
As Director of Rehabilitation Innovation Mount Sinai Health, Dr. Putrino‘s focus is on real-world solutions for this patient cohort. In a world where new drug approval takes 10 years and technologies in this field can take 17 years to reach market, his aim is to bring patients tangible treatments and protocols in a practical timeframe. Currently involved in clinical trials for rapamycin and vagal nerve stimulation, Dr. Putrino endeavours to re-purpose drugs and technologies that are already approved in other situations to create personalised strategies for this engaged cohort.
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# 13 The role of Mast Cells in complex illness: what they are and how to calm them with Dr. Theoharis Theoharides
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides ‘The Mast Cell Master’ has been at the forefront of mast cell research for over 30 years. A renowned expert in allergy, neuroinflammation, and mast cell biology, his work centers on understanding the regulation of these critical immune cells. His extensive studies explore their fundamental role in the body, the mechanisms behind their activation and inhibition, and their involvement in a wide range of conditions—from asthma and eczema to neuroinflammatory disorders and complex chronic illnesses.
In this week’s episode, we delve into the role of mast cells in complex chronic disease. Dr. Theoharides explains how mast cells are distributed throughout the body, the various stressors that can activate them, and how their activation may contribute to overlapping symptoms seen in conditions such as migraines and irritable bowel syndrome. The comparisons draw into question whether a degree of mast cell activation is co-morbid in many of these conditions, or indeed whether some of these conditions are a symptom of mast cell activation.
He underscores the urgent need for better diagnostic tools, greater awareness within the medical community, and a broader, more integrative treatment strategy. This includes lifestyle interventions and the use of natural flavonoids, which have been proven to inhibit mast cell activity. Dr. Theoharides also discusses the ongoing challenges in securing research funding and the potential for integrative approaches to address complex conditions – thinking outside the box to treat patients individually, listening to their needs and treating accordingly – which is what he believes they are able to do with his team at NSU
Dr. Theoharides is Executive Director, Center of Excellence for Neuroinflammation Research (CENIR) & Professor, Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine at Nova Southeastern University. Prior to this he spent four decades at Tufts University where he was Director of Molecular Immunopharmacology & Drug Discovery.
The podcast shining a light on invisible illness.
Emily Kate Stephens, journalist and Long Covid sufferer, discusses the latest research and insights with the world’s leading experts, scientists and healthcare professionals. Including ME/CFS, Long Covid, EDS, Fibromyalgia, POTS, and more, we dive into the science of energy-limiting, complex illness.
Join us every two weeks.
To find out more about the work that Visible is doing, using wearable technology to measure and manage complex chronic illness, visit our website at
makevisible.com
or follow us on Instagram at visible.health.
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